E85 tuning

[IMSHAKN]

Ok Boys and Girls, today we will learn a new word and it's true meaning...

hygroscopic.
(1) Possessing a marked ability to accelerate the condensation of water vapor; applied to condensation nuclei composed of salts that yield aqueous solutions of a very low equilibrium vapor pressure compared with that of pure water at the same temperature. (2) Pertaining to a substance whose physical characteristics are appreciably altered by effects of water vapor. (3) Pertaining to water absorbed by dry soil minerals from the atmosphere; the amounts depend on the physicochemical character of the surfaces, and increase with rising relative humidity.

That was for everyone except WB, as he was in the Navy and knows a lot about water.

Sorry Bill, but I'm up late too and could not resist, lol

Lol, tell me about it. That's the one thing about E85 that I've never liked. But unfortunately it's a property of the fuel due to its chemical composition. I hate having to fight this with many of the chemicals I work with in the lab. Knowing how big of a problem it really is and having seen / experienced problems with contamination in the lab, it'd scare me to rely on this fuel.

Water contamination of the fuel = bad. The more water the fuel absorbs the more you decrease its energy content. Making the potential benefits of the fuel to not be fully realized.

[ASUSMC]

Lol, tell me about it. That's the one thing about E85 that I've never liked. But unfortunately it's a property of the fuel due to its chemical composition. I hate having to fight this with many of the chemicals I work with in the lab. Knowing how big of a problem it really is and having seen / experienced problems with contamination in the lab, it'd scare me to rely on this fuel.

Water contamination of the fuel = bad. The more water the fuel absorbs the more you decrease its energy content. Making the potential benefits of the fuel to not be fully realized.

Could you counteract this by putting some sort of water filter on the fuel similar to a Diesel?

[WildBill]

Could you counteract this by putting some sort of water filter on the fuel similar to a Diesel?

Nope.........It's like brake fluid. It just absorbs it.

[BurnTire]

Well lets not go on the goggle E85 moisture bandwagon myth. If you fill an unsealed tank and let it sit for months it may attract moisture. Most modern cars have a sealed fuel system. Not really much of an issue in the dry climate we live in if it wasn't sealed. E85 has a proven record in race cars. No corrosion, not moisture problems, etc. If the vehicle is driven regularly and you keep fresh E85 in the tank you should not have any problems. When ethanol gets mixed with gasoline the moisture absorption rate falls substantially. It takes a bunch of moisture to get phase separation with E85.

[WildBill]

Well lets not go on the goggle E85 moisture bandwagon myth. If you fill an unsealed tank and let it sit for months it may attract moisture. Most modern cars have a sealed fuel system. Not really much of an issue in the dry climate we live in if it wasn't sealed. E85 has a proven record in race cars. No corrosion, not moisture problems, etc. If the vehicle is driven regularly and you keep fresh E85 in the tank you should not have any problems. When ethanol gets mixed with gasoline the moisture absorption rate falls substantially. It takes a bunch of moisture to get phase separation with E85.

There is no dang MYTH about e85 absorbing moisture.
But gas station tank are not sealed and no one mentioned phase separation. You would notice changes in running fuel well before you get to that point.
SURE it proven in race cars. They damn sure don't pump from the local gas station. They use fuel in sealed drums fulled at the refinery.

[az2k1]

this week'n Dave tune my boys Cobra w/K.B 2.2L and made 660hp @ 19psi and a 12.5 a/f so we backed it off because lack of fuel so back to the drawing borad .. yes need more fuel ...... but it made power ....

[BurnTire]

LOL. Give it a break Bill.
There are many sub 10 second cars using the pumps stuff.
I hope the flex fuel vehicle I own doesn't blow up anytime soon after the thousands of miles I have driven it on E85. I bet it has a few gallons of water in the tank because the "real man of genius" read about it on google.

[BurnTire]

this week'n Dave tune my boys Cobra w/K.B 2.2L and made 660hp @ 19psi and a 12.5 a/f so we backed it off because lack of fuel so back to the drawing borad .. yes need more fuel ...... but it made power ....

Look for about a 10% gain over regular gas. What size injectors does he have in the car?

[IMSHAKN]

Jeff, not to be a dick, but you'd be amazed with how readily Ethanol absorbs water. Ethanol is one of many things I use in the lab and it's something that we frequently have issues with becoming contaminated with water. Same reason why it's VERY difficult to obtain pure ethanol through distillation. For you so called internet smarties I'll let ya figure out how you can obtain pure ethanol...good luck keeping that pure as well.

I don't care what BS you see posted up on the internet from other sources backing or calling the absorption of water a MYTH, I assure you it is not as I deal with it in the lab (With Ethanol because I use it heavily in the lab as well as other chemicals). Anyone know what happens when dealing with DNA and your not using a high enough concentration of ethanol because your ethanol was either improperly diluted or one of the retards in the lab left the lid off...

When that ethanol sits in the storage tanks it is will absorb water just as gasoline and diesel do in ground tanks and during transport, etc. The only difference is that this will be much more readily absorbed when exposed.

Just as I'd only buy race fuel out of the drum, the same would be said about E85. While I think it is a great fuel in some aspects, I think there are some problems with running it, especially in cars not originally setup to run the fuel. (A FFV has sensors to determine the ethanol content and adapt the change in fuel. This is important because use of E85 in a car not originally made to run on the fuel cannot make these changes. Something I'd personally like to have as the E85 blends are not as consistent as your typical gasoline mixtures).

On a FFV, go ahead and run the E85, just change your filter often if you switch back and forth regularly between regular gas and E85. For your average vehicle I think it's fine. But on a performance vehicle, I'd like a little more consistency if I were gonna run it daily and I'd demand it if I was going to tune the car to run hard on the fuel.

[IMSHAKN]

LOL. Give it a break Bill.
There are many sub 10 second cars using the pumps stuff.
I hope the flex fuel vehicle I own doesn't blow up anytime soon after the thousands of miles I have driven it on E85. I bet it has a few gallons of water in the tank because the "real man of genius" read about it on google.

Your FFV is not optimized to run on E85. It will run on it fairly reasonably, but not as well as it could if the tune was optimized just for E85.

As far as the water goes, you don't get that much separation unless there are high water concentrations as Ethanol is miscible in water.