SuperCharger Question

[paysonpony]

I am running a Saleen SuperCharger + 475 hp upgrade kit on my 2007 Mustang GT. I originally ran a 91 octane SC tune from Brenspeed on my SCT Xcal- II. But I had the car/tune reworked by Tim at X-act Dyno. When I picked up my car, I could not believe the performance increase. My car ran outstanding. But in cold weather, when I first start my car for the day, it hesitates like an older carb car. But after it warms up it runs like a champ. Is this normal? Has anyone else seeing this happen? I live in Payson and I am currently the only Mustang in our area that has upgraded with a SuperCharger so far, so I have no one in our area to ask questions or compare examples. Everything Tim did was well in specs. I am running 6lbs of boost and 409 rwhp. BTW, my car is an Automatic, 4:10 gears, and MAC axle back exhaust, running the GT500 tires and wheels set. Other than that I don't have any other mechanical/performance upgrades. The stubborn cold weather issue isn't really a bother, but I would like to know if it is normal.

Thanks
Keith

[Blackmagic1]

Well, the first question is what did Tim at the Dyno shop say? Assuming you already questioned him on the problem.

[billyboss]

it is not normal,either they didn't set something correctly, or they damaged some other component, or you have some other component that has failed, do you have a check engine light on?, I would not drive the card hard until you get this figured out. I am not saying your shop nessacarly did something wrong.always keep in mind when doing tuning,it is not always about the biggest power gain, driveability is the most important aspect if your going to drive your car daily. Again let me say I am not saying it's the shop's fault,just that something is not right with your car

[WildBill]

It's NOT normal for the car to run in that fashion.
Just a couple areas where the tune may be off and needs a tweak:

1. The tuner let the computer "adaptive learn" too far up in the tune and/OR on the wrong areas.
2. A little fuel may need to be pulled in the cold start parameters
3
05 up computers are VERY smart. I've you don't have a LOT of experiance in tuning them, there are so many parameters that a tuner can screw up. Also, if the tuner hasn't been to SCT's 05 up Advanced Tuning course, he WON'T have access to quite a few critical parameters when tuning the more complicated engine combos.

Why don't you give me a call at the shop and I can discuss scheduling you a time for a dyno eval. I'd suggest dropping it off in the evening to be evaluate the cold start on the dyno in the next morning.

[paysonpony]

Thank you all for your help and answers. I did get a reply from Brenspeed, and they suggested that I try something first before getting a retune. Chandler at Brenspeed suggested that I pull the air inlet tube off and check to see if I had any oil residue or any oil for that matter in the throttle body. Sure enough there was oil there. He said this was nothing new for them, and that I can correct the problem with an oil seperator in the PCV line. He explained that the supercharger pulls at a greater level and sucks oil up the PCV line into the throttle body. And in a cold start, the butterflies open very little, and with oil puddled in the throttle body it creates restriction and hesitation. So I did the oil seperator modification and GREAT, that did it. After which, I went on line to research this and found that Steeda actually makes a modification just for this problem, and I found that it is a bigger issue that I thought. There is actually a pretty big thread on this modification.
I wanted to update you all on what I did and how it got resolved. And I wanted to make sure and thank you all for your help and suggestions -THANK YOU.

Keith Orr
RCMC

[05mustangman]

Hey bill our 08 gt does the same thing. We have the kenne bell as you know. when i first start it up i let it idle for a few mins then drive down the street. when i hit the gas it feels really sluggish like its not gonna go. then after about 2 mins of driving it goes normal. but its like it wont go over 2,200 rpms when it feels sluggish.

Sorry for hijacking your thread for a minute. lol.

[Casey39er]

I hate to admit it, but just recently my car has started doing the same thing. When it is cold (just out of the garage) at low speed when I am puttering through the neighborhood, it will be sluggish and jumpy at low throttle. Once I get out on the main roads and can give it some gas and it warms up it's back to normal.

I thought I just got some bad gas but it is doing it every time now.

I'll get it down to the shop soon and have it checked out on the Dyno. I will also look at for oil deposits behind the throttle body.

[05mustangman]

That is the exact same as mine. hmm.... yea ill prolly give them a call and set up a time to come in.

[ASUSMC]

You guys may want to look into 02 sensors. They do go bad over time especially when you are throwing as much fuel at them as you guys are.

[paysonpony]

I just corrected this problem on my 07 Mustang GT, running a Saleen SuperCharger + 475 hp kit. I had been living with this hesitation for a while and just got tired of it. My car ran perfectly after warming up, but had very big hesitation until warming up. Brenspeed is who has been working with me since I originally purchased my tunes from them.
If you have any questions, talk to Chandler at Brenspeed. They have been working with customers running SC's and correcting this problem for a while now. Steeda actually makes the oil seperator kit for this issue.
What is happening is the SC pulls much harder than stock and only having just a vent tube on the line, it pulls oil through the PCV hose. The oil collects in the throttle body and at cold start with the butterflies just barely open, the collection of oil blocks the air enough to cause the hesitation. But after warmng up and the butterflies being more open, you don't get the hesitation.
Also, I don't know if this has also happend to you guys, but once in a while I would get a puff of smoke at cold start. Again with the oil settling in the throttle body, I got a shot of oil and a little smoke.
I have had my oil seperator on my car for about 3 days now, and it has corrected the problem. I have done everything I can to try and test this new mod, and so far everything is great. I hope this helps.
There are a few write ups on this in different forums, but here is one:
http://allfordmustangs.com/forums/2005-mustang-gt-tech/114155-2005-mustang-gt-supercharger-oil-my-throttle-body.html

Please let me know if I can help anyone further with this issue. I am new to this mod myself, but I would like to repay the favors I recieved on this forum in any way I can.
Thanks,
Keith Orr
Payson, AZ
RCMC

[paysonpony]

BTW, I forgot to mention that if you do not want to purchase the Steeda kit, which sells for 69.00 dollars, you can make your own with an all purpose filter seperator from Home Depot, a couple of 1/4 inch brass nipples, and some 15/32 or 1/2 inch hose. Make sure and put your oil seperator in an easy to get to place so you can dump the oil occassionally. Buying these items cost me approx. 24.00 dollars. And it looks just like Steeda's kit.

Keith

[WildBill]

I just corrected this problem on my 07 Mustang GT, running a Saleen SuperCharger + 475 hp kit. I had been living with this hesitation for a while and just got tired of it. My car ran perfectly after warming up, but had very big hesitation until warming up. Brenspeed is who has been working with me since I originally purchased my tunes from them.
If you have any questions, talk to Chandler at Brenspeed. They have been working with customers running SC's and correcting this problem for a while now. Steeda actually makes the oil seperator kit for this issue.
What is happening is the SC pulls much harder than stock and only having just a vent tube on the line, it pulls oil through the PCV hose. The oil collects in the throttle body and at cold start with the butterflies just barely open, the collection of oil blocks the air enough to cause the hesitation. But after warmng up and the butterflies being more open, you don't get the hesitation.
Also, I don't know if this has also happend to you guys, but once in a while I would get a puff of smoke at cold start. Again with the oil settling in the throttle body, I got a shot of oil and a little smoke.
I have had my oil seperator on my car for about 3 days now, and it has corrected the problem. I have done everything I can to try and test this new mod, and so far everything is great. I hope this helps.
There are a few write ups on this in different forums, but here is one:
http://allfordmustangs.com/forums/2005-mustang-gt-tech/114155-2005-mustang-gt-supercharger-oil-my-throttle-body.html

Please let me know if I can help anyone further with this issue. I am new to this mod myself, but I would like to repay the favors I recieved on this forum in any way I can.
Thanks,
Keith Orr
Payson, AZ
RCMC

Keith

Not to blow off this mod, it's a good one for a SC application to limit oil consumption AND detonation due to contamination of intake air charge, but I can't see this mod properly solving the hesitation problem. IF you had enough oil siting behind the throttle blades to interfere with idle air and/or part throttle on start up/warm up, the car would smoke like a freight train. This more of a possibility on 04 and below cars with the style of IAC on those cars, which is not present on the 05 up Mustangs. Off the top of my head, the only way this could have solved the problem inerrant, is by allowing a slight bit more air behind the throttlebody.

The most likely culprit is actually in the cold fuel tables and is a fairly easy adjustment to do,but needs to be done on a cold engine for best results.

[05mustangman]

thanks for the info bill. i will definitely be giving you a call soon about that.

[WildBill]

thanks for the info bill. i will definitely be giving you a call soon about that.

NEVER hesitate to call if you have a problem with one of our tunes.

I also wanna talk to ya about a good friend of mine. He has some very interesting mods to his GT500.:Devious::shhh:

[paysonpony]

Sounds like you know what you are talking about my Friend. I will be gone for the next two weeks after the Route 66 show, but I would like to talk to you more and possibly get my car in for you to take a look at it next month. I agree with everything you said, and I don't want to take any chances before I go to the Monsoon Madness event. I hope I can get into see you before then. Are you getting booked up...?? Talk to you soon,
Thank you for your advice, I do appreciate it. My car is my baby, I don't want to take any chances....

Thanks,
Keith
RCMC

[WildBill]

Sounds like you know what you are talking about my Friend. I will be gone for the next two weeks after the Route 66 show, but I would like to talk to you more and possibly get my car in for you to take a look at it next month. I agree with everything you said, and I don't want to take any chances before I go to the Monsoon Madness event. I hope I can get into see you before then. Are you getting booked up...?? Talk to you soon,
Thank you for your advice, I do appreciate it. My car is my baby, I don't want to take any chances....

Thanks,
Keith
RCMC

No problem Keith!
We can throw it up on the dyno and log a few key parameters to make sure everything is going well.
Gimme a call after 9am in the morning and well put ya on the schedule that's good for both of us.

[05mustangman]

yea bill i put the new exhaust on the gt500 already and am ready for an intake and some tuning for it. but so far i havent seen anyone that has an intake available for the 2010 gt500's yet.

[Casey39er]

Thanks for the info on the oil separator PaysonPony. I have been contemplating having one installed for some time now after reading about the benefit of having one on a Super Charged engine.

Bill, I will be making an appointment to have Devin check out the tune. It has been over a year since he has checked it out on the Dyno. I want to see if anything needs to be adjusted. I will leave it overnight if need be, so it can be checked out cold.

Thanks again for the info guys.

[paysonpony]

Hello Blaine,
I hope that it is something simple for us all to fix this problem. After talking with Bill, I am going to get my car in to have him check it over anyway. I do like the oil seperator in line on my PCV hose anyway. It does collect more oil than I thought would be going through that line. I do not get any puffs of smoke anymore on occassional startups. And it looks pretty good I think. All together with my homemade bracket and seperator from home depot and supplies, I spent 24.00 dollars. Looks just like the one for sale online, but not for the cost of 69.00 dollars. I would also recommend that you have Bill take a look when you can, just to cover all your bases.
Keep us posted on your progress, Take care,

Thanks,
Keith Orr
Payson, AZ
RCMC