Our Economy Now Effects Our Children's Future....

[princessturtle]

[ThePunisher95]

When I was a kid kindergarden was just like 2 hours, and I was a honor student thru out my elementry and got a's and b's thru out high school. Dont know what the big deal is. Kids should be kids at that age.

[White90GT]

State Deficient makes schools and law makers question whether full day kinder (7.5 hours) is worth it given the falling economy. They want to move it to half day kinder (more or less 3 hours) or give the choice of charging parents to keep kids in full time.


When my oldest daughter was in Kindergarten, it was $200.00 / month out here in Mesa. First time I had ever heard of paying for Kindergarten.

[ThePunisher95]

I do agree though, we're definitely setting our kids up to be dumber than a box of pubic hairs.

True, but dont you think parents should also teach their kids? Parents these days cant even teach their own kids manners or how to behave or even have some respect for others or even material things.

[BurnTire]

True, but dont you think parents should also teach their kids? Parents these days cant even teach their own kids manners or how to behave or even have some respect for others or even material things.

You hit the problem right on the head.

[HIKER]

Kindergarten was always a 1.2 deal when I was a kid.

It's basically state run day care...

[ThePunisher95]

Thats what I think. Parents need to stop blaming the schools or the government for things that should of been thought at home.

[BurnTire]

Kindergarten was always a 1.2 deal when I was a kid.

It's basically state run day care...

1/2 day when I was there and I came out ok.

[princessturtle]

[BurnTire]

Half day might have been what you were exposed to, but how much did your parents teach you?

My kids came in and 95% of them knew absolutely nada. They didn't know letter names, sounds, the names (verbal) of colors or even how to count to 5. **** even knowing how to hold a pencil or color! They’ve never heard of washing their hands, flushing the toilet, covering their mouth. How about pee in a toilet??? LMAO. Most are allowed to hit and beat up their siblings at home without consequence. They don't listen; they don't even know how to sit in a chair for a full minute! There are absolutely no morals taught to these kids and parents could care less about it. Shit, half the parents will turn their back when it's found that the child isn't doing well in school due to behavior.

By second grade, they are required to start testing for AIMS which will now test in ALL subject areas, not just math and reading. The standards and expectations won't go down just because the kids are essentially missing out on at least half of a year of school.

You say you turned out fine? What is fine to you? Honor roll means nothing. Neither does A's and B's since expectations have changed and more is required. Do you have a degree? What about the people you went to school with? What percentage dropped out or only got a HS diploma? While that may be fine for some, you are now making it more common to see drop outs (since they can't pass the AIMS) and those that sit in low end jobs and live off of welfare.

What type of area did you grow up in? Underprivileged? Since this will most affect that population... was your first language English? Since that will also be affected. What about how much you learned from your parents? Morals and academia... what percentage of members of gangs and those that commit crimes (drug dealers, theft, etc) are..... People that grew up in underprivileged areas..... Second language English speakers...... didn't graduate HS or only graduated HS.... Let's take a guess here...

1/2 day kinder is ONLY day care. ya. But I can guarantee you that if you walk into my or any other kinder classroom in my school/district, we do NOT look anything like a day care. if you want proof, I’ll choose 5, 10, or even all of my kids' work that they did today in writing alone and post it. My kids can write complete sentences and at least 2 sentences on one thing. They are reading simple books. Books with at LEAST 15 words. Not much, but for a five year old? In day care no less.... that came in knowing zero English and well, nothing else.

I've heard countless people say that parents should no longer be held liable for their children's behaviors, but rather the teachers?!?! Who else is there if the parents won't...


My Parents taught me that manners, respect, and hard work is the way to succeed. I could do everything that you mentioned above going into kinder.

So you try to point the children in the right direction. Then the parents don't care.

The Problem is with the parents.

Fine to me was successfully reaching my career goals. The educational and technical requirements to be in my position are extremely high. All went well for only having 1/2 day of kinder.

[White90GT]

True, but dont you think parents should also teach their kids? Parents these days cant even teach their own kids manners or how to behave or even have some respect for others or even material things.

Never said parents shouldn't be on the hook for their kids well being :icon_smile:

My biggest bitch as a parent (when my kids were younger) is that my kids see what other kids are allowed to get away with and then I have to curb the attitude my kids brought home. Now that they are teenagers I find it humorous when they come home and tell me how jacked up their friends are :icon_lol:

When your kids can point out what other people are doing wrong, as well as avoiding those situations on their own, then you know you've done your job as a parent and given them the necessities to make it on their own.

[princessturtle]

My Parents taught me that manners, respect, and hard work is the way to succeed. I could do everything that you mentioned above going into kinder.

So you try to point the children in the right direction. Then the parents don't care.

The Problem is with the parents.

Fine to me was successfully reaching my career goals. The educational and technical requirements to be in my position are extremely high. All went well for only having 1/2 day of kinder.

That's completely understandable, but it doesn't happen. For the vast majority of children, the parents either don't know or don't care about the things that your parents taught you. Taking away a chunk of their kinder day and essentially that year in which they NEED to learn all that stuff isn't going to make the parents step it up. It'll only make it worse for teachers, schools, and later on, society.

You are exactly right with your version of fine. Someone's fine may be to graduate HS, while others may be to get a PHD. However, this fine is heavily affected when the children get a bad education followed by bad home circumstances. If they are at least given a chance in the educational setting, it can change the damage done in the home setting and allow them to choose where they want to go, rather than be given no choice what-so-ever. My job as a teacher is to give my students the most choices in life. Nothing else. It's not to get them to college, but instead to give them the tools they would need, might they wish to go.


An example of one of my parents: I have a girl, I adore her. She's well behaved, spoiled by Mom. Came in and 1/4 through the year could still not tell me a single sound, letter name, or count. When I told the Mom this, the only reply was, "Well, she never had preschool. This is the first schooling she's had." The mom means well, but she doesn't know, nor does she understand what is needed from them. It goes with the idea that kinder should just be fun with little to no academic learning.

[ttocs]

I've heard countless people say that parents should no longer be held liable for their children's behaviors, but rather the teachers?!?! Who else is there if the parents won't...



That is because they do not want to be responsible for the way their kids act. being single with no children I have noticed that my dog is often better behaved(off a leash) then most of the kids I see while the parents act like they didn't see or hear what their kid is up to.

My dad did not beat me but didn't need to do anything more then give me a serious look to get my attention. I am not sure why kids of today are immune to this?

[ThePunisher95]

That's completely understandable, but it doesn't happen. For the vast majority of children, the parents either don't know or don't care about the things that your parents taught you. Taking away a chunk of their kinder day and essentially that year in which they NEED to learn all that stuff isn't going to make the parents step it up. It'll only make it worse for teachers, schools, and later on, society.

You are exactly right with your version of fine. Someone's fine may be to graduate HS, while others may be to get a PHD. However, this fine is heavily affected when the children get a bad education followed by bad home circumstances. If they are at least given a chance in the educational setting, it can change the damage done in the home setting and allow them to choose where they want to go, rather than be given no choice what-so-ever. My job as a teacher is to give my students the most choices in life. Nothing else. It's not to get them to college, but instead to give them the tools they would need, might they wish to go.


An example of one of my parents: I have a girl, I adore her. She's well behaved, spoiled by Mom. Came in and 1/4 through the year could still not tell me a single sound, letter name, or count. When I told the Mom this, the only reply was, "Well, she never had preschool. This is the first schooling she's had." The mom means well, but she doesn't know, nor does she understand what is needed from them. It goes with the idea that kinder should just be fun with little to no academic learning.

I read some of it, I dont care what people have to say bout how schools are bad and what not these days. It is not there fault for the most part. If the parents dont care why the hell are the kids gonna care about their education. The parents should be at fault for the behavier of their own kids, not the schools. My dad just went to the sixth grade, and at 50 he retired. He can leave of what he has made in his past and have anything he wants. His parents thought him manners, respect, and hard work. Like on e of the members said, dogs have better manners these days than kids. Same thing here all I needed was a dirty look from my parents and you best to believe I knew exactly what I needed to do.

[princessturtle]

That is because they do not want to be responsible for the way their kids act. being single with no children I have noticed that my dog is often better behaved(off a leash) then most of the kids I see while the parents act like they didn't see or hear what their kid is up to.

My dad did not beat me but didn't need to do anything more then give me a serious look to get my attention. I am not sure why kids of today are immune to this?

They aren't. i give my kids a dirty look and they freeze in their place and fix whatever they're doing. If they don't, there's immediate consequences. Children that don't respond to nasty looks are often not taught what they mean. To them, a dirty look is probably nothing more than a weird or scary face. Unless the parents or teachers have taught them that a look means they are doing something bad and there will be consquences, then it means nothing.

[ttocs]

I swear my dad had lazers that would come out of his eyes. They would glow bright red for a second and if you could stop WHATEVER it was that you were doing at that EXACT moment then they would not cause any pain to your backside. I could be in a dead sprint going after my dream of the gold medal and I have been conditioned to freeze dead still in a millisecond. It has been years since he did his trick but I am willing to bet as an adult in my 30s it would still work today.

[princessturtle]

I read some of it, I dont care what people have to say bout how schools are bad and what not these days. It is not there fault for the most part. If the parents dont care why the hell are the kids gonna care about their education. The parents should be at fault for the behavier of their own kids, not the schools. My dad just went to the sixth grade, and at 50 he retired. He can leave of what he has made in his past and have anything he wants. His parents thought him manners, respect, and hard work. Like on e of the members said, dogs have better manners these days than kids. Same thing here all I needed was a dirty look from my parents and you best to believe I knew exactly what I needed to do.

sooo... leave the kids with bad parents to learn their parents' mistakes. when the child gets older and has children of their own??? slipery slope.

that's the easiest and could be possibly most ignorant thing to do. leave them up to their own devices and see what happens. teachers are only responsible for academics... problem will only get worse though.

it has to stop somewhere and someone needs to come in to try to stop or even reverse the damage. it SHOULD be the parents that do this, not the teachers. but when a child has no chance at home, it shouldn't be that he has no chance in life either. home life will always be a factor in what happens with a child and how they grow up, however it shouldn't be the sole determinant.

i used to argue that it's not a teacher's place to be a parent. Sandbagger Steve (I believe???) is the one that argued up a wall about being wrong. I was.

[AZ-GT]

I think I lost focus somewhere on this thread.

Do I get the premise right, the percentage of bad parents far exceeds good parents, therefore Dear Leader needs to have more time with/control of the everyone's children?

[Bandit]

[princessturtle]

i never said that anyone other than the parents needed to raise the child. nor did i ever say that the government needed to step in for the parents. ur taking it one step further in saying that the government just needs to control the kids. either i wrote it wrong or u read it wrong.

what i'm saying is that teachers need to step in and during the time they have the kids, teach them everything that they lacked from the parents. full day kinder helps to do this. parents can't be forced to teach their kids letter sounds, names, reading, counting, etc. instead, they come to full day kinder where they are expected to learn that along with any other skills that the parents neglected to teach them. you know, manners and basic skills that are often supposed to be taught long before they enter the schooling system. when the teacher has to step in to teach a kid that it's not ok to hurt, to wash their hands, flush the toliet, cover their mouths, not push, not shove, not sit on another kid, etc, THAT is called parenting, regardless that it's the teacher that is teaching them these skills.

and fwiw: as far as the government taking over the kids' lives. that's what cps, foster homes, and boarding school is for. essentially same thing.

if this helps, out of 23 kinders at the beginning of the year, not a single one of them knew more than 5 letter names. 2 knew up to 5 letter names. 1 knew at least 3 letter sounds. That same 1 that knew some names and sounds also had manners and knew how to count to 5. That would be 1... Lol... So for 1 kid in my class, I'm not parenting. Now, for the other 22...

[princessturtle]

actually the teacher next door had a good point. i'm not a first grade teacher, nor am i responsible for the aims testing. so why should i care? noone else does. :Bucktooth:

[Gene]

My kids 4 and 2 can both count to 100 and know their ABC's. My son can spell & right his name. He also and knows his letters. Yea, i taught him that.

[ThePunisher95]

actually the teacher next door had a good point. i'm not a first grade teacher, nor am i responsible for the aims testing. so why should i care? noone else does. :Bucktooth:

Cuz your job is being a teacher and teaching kids whatever the school or state tells you to teach

[princessturtle]

Cuz your job is being a teacher and teaching kids whatever the school or state tells you to teach

i was being very sarcastic if u didn't pick that up. if i ever don't care, i told myself i'd find another career where caring doesn't matter.

[Jacostang]

[1966PonyGirl]

No No No!!! Do not let the "Government" do anymore than they have to.. The Senate and House are full of the worst examples that we have of social and fiscal responsibility.
Read to yor kids and teach them right from wrong and thats a good start.

Jaco is right. if anything, the government WANTS your kids to be stupid. sooooooo much easier to control the slow and ignorant.

remember folks, spay and neuter your kids if you want the system to raise them!

[IMSHAKN]

I have no problem with half day kindergarten. Hell, I think I turned out fine and that's all I went through. Took all honors and AP classes. Started freshman year of college with 34 credit hours since I took calculus and whatnot in high school. Four years later and I'm about to graduate with a BS in Molecular Biosciences and Biotechnology. Can't say it impacted me negatively as I think that kind of degree speaks for itself. Most of my friends who did well in school didn't do full day either.

I'm sorry you feel that AIMS is so damn difficult and that meeting its standards are tough. I've got news for those who've never taken those tests, educators make them up to be harder than they really are. If a child cannot pass those tests I think they should be held back until they can and that if a school as a whole is failing as a whole that they should be held accountable.

As far as the parents not teaching their kids anything goes, not all parents are like that. At the same time, it's not hard to whip kids into line. You have to be firm and it's not terribly difficult, you just have to be firm with them rather than constantly trying to be their friend and give into them like many parents and teachers do.

The whole school system is not going to fail because of budget cuts, the sky isn't falling. Honestly I think schools have needed this for quite some time as there are a lot of unnecessary costs in many of the public schools and they could use their budget trimmed. I hope that with the budget cuts that school districts take a step back and really get a hold of their budgets. (Same goes for ASU...they REALLY need to fix their shitty budget. One of the highest paid presidents for what, a crappy school)

[princessturtle]

From what I know, and I could be wrong, you didn't graduate from AZ schools... And AIMS is specific to Arizona and the AIMS that you may have taken wasn't the same as this AIMS. AIMS- ARIZONA instrument for measuring standards. AIMS was reconfigured probably after you took it, if you did. The first version of AIMS was too easy to pass, so the state decided they needed to change it. Statistics say that it should get a bell curve result on scores. So AZ made sure it got the bell curve. Yes schools should be held accountable, but more so then the schools is the individual teachers. There's some horrible teachers. For the past 2 years I've been stuck with teachers next door that can't meet standards and have a tendency to scream at their students all day.

So if schools need budget cuts, why are so many teachers barely getting paid and many schools in the phoenix metro area thinking about bankruptcy? The Roosevelt School District alone cut several teachers after the beginning of the year due to budgets and there are classes with over 40 kinder students in them. Cartwright School District is closing 5 of their schools next year, including their preschool.

You sure have a ****y attitude about how to deal with a child considering you have none of your own.

I love how people talk about shit that they have absolutely no clue about.

[princessturtle]

Honestly I think schools have needed this for quite some time as there are a lot of unnecessary costs in many of the public schools and they could use their budget trimmed. I hope that with the budget cuts that school districts take a step back and really get a hold of their budgets.

Here's the perfect quote for you.


At issue is $120 million in excess-utilities funding for school districts, which the state could tap as early as July.
Cuts would force districts including Mesa (http://www.city-data.com/city/Mesa-Arizona.html) Public Schools, Paradise Valley (http://www.city-data.com/city/Paradise-Valley-Arizona.html) Unified and Scottsdale (http://www.city-data.com/city/Scottsdale-Arizona.html) Unified to make millions of dollars of cuts just to cover electricity bills. And it's likely to affect the classroom, with districts having to increase class sizes and eliminate some teaching positions and programs to make up the difference.

realize also that classrooms typically have 25-40 students depending on the budget and need of the district as well as grade level.

[Bandit]

[ThePunisher95]

I love how people say you have a shitty attitude when everyone is just posting their 02 cents and yet your posting how YOU think it should be fixed when all it is your 02 cents also. Dont get your panties all wet cuz people dont agree with you.

[ThePunisher95]

And just because someone doesnt have kids of their own doesnt mean he cant have a say it like you make it seem like. He can have cousins, nieces, little brother or something he loves.

[BurnTire]

I have no problem with half day kindergarten. Hell, I think I turned out fine and that's all I went through. Took all honors and AP classes. Started freshman year of college with 34 credit hours since I took calculus and whatnot in high school. Four years later and I'm about to graduate with a BS in Molecular Biosciences and Biotechnology. Can't say it impacted me negatively as I think that kind of degree speaks for itself. Most of my friends who did well in school didn't do full day either.

I'm sorry you feel that AIMS is so damn difficult and that meeting its standards are tough. I've got news for those who've never taken those tests, educators make them up to be harder than they really are. If a child cannot pass those tests I think they should be held back until they can and that if a school as a whole is failing as a whole that they should be held accountable.

As far as the parents not teaching their kids anything goes, not all parents are like that. At the same time, it's not hard to whip kids into line. You have to be firm and it's not terribly difficult, you just have to be firm with them rather than constantly trying to be their friend and give into them like many parents and teachers do.

The whole school system is not going to fail because of budget cuts, the sky isn't falling. Honestly I think schools have needed this for quite some time as there are a lot of unnecessary costs in many of the public schools and they could use their budget trimmed. I hope that with the budget cuts that school districts take a step back and really get a hold of their budgets. (Same goes for ASU...they REALLY need to fix their shitty budget. One of the highest paid presidents for what, a crappy school)

Molecular Biosciences and Biotechnology

Boy Andrew you sound like a real dummy. Maybe you should have majored in education you know that is a much harder major. :hyper:

[1966PonyGirl]

You sure have a ****y attitude about how to deal with a child considering you have none of your own.

I love how people talk about shit that they have absolutely no clue about.

I ran a preschool class room with a curriculum for two years. i know how to deal with a children. Its the parents that dont understand that they are the number one person they learn from.

You have a lot of people who bring children in the world with absolutly no forethought. Oops! jane doe accidently got pregnate! or oops! someone had 50 babies and is a single parent and wants more kids. What happens in these situations: the government/schools raise them.

You, Princessturtle, as a teacher will have to keep doing the great job you are doing. In a year or two, in light of the economy, you will have to give more for far less. Your choice is to A) continue teaching and start a movement to inspire parents to not work 5 jobs in order to keep up with bills so they can spend more time on kids or B) encourage people to STOP having kids (way before they find they are pregnant) and teach them to have better reasons to bring kids into the world.

If you have a better option on tackling the problem besides complaining about the schools getting cuts, go for it! be passionate about something and go thru with it.:awsome:

[1966PonyGirl]

[Jacostang]

Well there is alot of truth in what you say the fact is somewhere down the road we need to do something about responsibility in having kids. That lady in Cali had no business doing what she did and her quote I jsut wanted to have children was absolute BS when she already had 6. Now who is going to raise 14?? Guess who??? John and Jane Taxpayer.

You need a License to drive a car, serve food or even catch a fish but anyone can have children even if they shouldn't.........

[IMSHAKN]

From what I know, and I could be wrong, you didn't graduate from AZ schools... And AIMS is specific to Arizona and the AIMS that you may have taken wasn't the same as this AIMS. AIMS- ARIZONA instrument for measuring standards. AIMS was reconfigured probably after you took it, if you did. The first version of AIMS was too easy to pass, so the state decided they needed to change it. Statistics say that it should get a bell curve result on scores. So AZ made sure it got the bell curve. Yes schools should be held accountable, but more so then the schools is the individual teachers. There's some horrible teachers. For the past 2 years I've been stuck with teachers next door that can't meet standards and have a tendency to scream at their students all day.

So if schools need budget cuts, why are so many teachers barely getting paid and many schools in the phoenix metro area thinking about bankruptcy? The Roosevelt School District alone cut several teachers after the beginning of the year due to budgets and there are classes with over 40 kinder students in them. Cartwright School District is closing 5 of their schools next year, including their preschool.

You sure have a ****y attitude about how to deal with a child considering you have none of your own.

I love how people talk about shit that they have absolutely no clue about.

Lol. I am an Arizonan native so I've got plenty of first hand experience with the stupid tests. I've got experience with both tests and there were probably less than 20 people in our school of 3000 who graduated my year with multiple exceeds the standards. Those who didn't exceed all tests but had exceeded one were pulled aside and ASKED to take the AIMS again for the sole purpose of inflating their scores. The test really is NOT difficult if we are teaching students at the level they should be learning. The problem is that we are NOT teaching the children at the level I feel they should be taught. The curriculums are too weak they really do not push the students to their full potentials. My freshman year of high school I couldn't stand how slow paced my math class was so I self taught myself freshman and sophomore math and was done just after winter break. I shit you not. There were simply a number of occasions during my times in public school where I felt the curriculum was lacking or at a pace much too slow to be appropriate.

I say that schools need budget cuts until they stop wasteful spending and start holding their teachers accountable. I realize what classroom sizes are like and have been in classrooms where there have not been enough actual desks for students. I realize the budgets schools are on, but I don't think that the problem is entirely a monetary problem and is more the result of an inept public education system that uses lack of funds as an excuse. Nor do I believe that teachers are grossly underpaid as if you were to extrapolate their pay for an entire years worth of work you'd have an income that is considered to be fairly average for a years worth of work. Sure, it would be nice for teachers to be paid a little better, but who doesn't want to be paid more? I'm just not convinced that the issue of our public schools is a monetary issue after the research I did back in high school for a number of papers on issues plaguing our public schools.

I spent my years in high school tutoring other students both in class and out because the teachers simply couldn't relate concepts/problems in ways that students could grasp or the teachers simply did not care. I did this for nothing other than the fact that I wanted to help out my friends and peers.

[princessturtle]

Lol. I am an Arizonan native so I've got plenty of first hand experience with the stupid tests. I've got experience with both tests and there were probably less than 20 people in our school of 3000 who graduated my year with multiple exceeds the standards. Those who didn't exceed all tests but had exceeded one were pulled aside and ASKED to take the AIMS again for the sole purpose of inflating their scores. The test really is NOT difficult if we are teaching students at the level they should be learning. The problem is that we are NOT teaching the children at the level I feel they should be taught. The curriculums are too weak they really do not push the students to their full potentials. My freshman year of high school I couldn't stand how slow paced my math class was so I self taught myself freshman and sophomore math and was done just after winter break. I shit you not. There were simply a number of occasions during my times in public school where I felt the curriculum was lacking or at a pace much too slow to be appropriate.


I say that schools need budget cuts until they stop wasteful spending and start holding their teachers accountable. I realize what classroom sizes are like and have been in classrooms where there have not been enough actual desks for students. I realize the budgets schools are on, but I don't think that the problem is entirely a monetary problem and is more the result of an inept public education system that uses lack of funds as an excuse. Nor do I believe that teachers are grossly underpaid as if you were to extrapolate their pay for an entire years worth of work you'd have an income that is considered to be fairly average for a years worth of work. Sure, it would be nice for teachers to be paid a little better, but who doesn't want to be paid more? I'm just not convinced that the issue of our public schools is a monetary issue after the research I did back in high school for a number of papers on issues plaguing our public schools.

I spent my years in high school tutoring other students both in class and out because the teachers simply couldn't relate concepts/problems in ways that students could grasp or the teachers simply did not care. I did this for nothing other than the fact that I wanted to help out my friends and peers.
Really well said. But you need to realize something. You are well spoken, you have a bad ass degree, and you taught not only yourself curriculum, but others. Your issue here then isn't with teachers, nor is it with the schools. You need to do some research on the NCLB act. Not all students can keep the pace it sounded like you kept. NCLB requires that teachers keep the pace of the lowest student and adjust the curriculum to match that student.


I ran a preschool class room with a curriculum for two years. i know how to deal with a children. Its the parents that dont understand that they are the number one person they learn from.


You have a lot of people who bring children in the world with absolutly no forethought. Oops! jane doe accidently got pregnate! or oops! someone had 50 babies and is a single parent and wants more kids. What happens in these situations: the government/schools raise them.

You, Princessturtle, as a teacher will have to keep doing the great job you are doing. In a year or two, in light of the economy, you will have to give more for far less. Your choice is to A) continue teaching and start a movement to inspire parents to not work 5 jobs in order to keep up with bills so they can spend more time on kids or B) encourage people to STOP having kids (way before they find they are pregnant) and teach them to have better reasons to bring kids into the world.

If you have a better option on tackling the problem besides complaining about the schools getting cuts, go for it! be passionate about something and go thru with it.

I have no right to suggest, imply or otherwise state that the parents should not be having children. That crosses many professional lines. The most I can do is help the parents that want the help and require them to do the homework with their kids. Early on, I told my parents that their kids would not pass my class if they did not do homework every night with their kid. Even my parents that work late have to work with their student.


I love how people say you have a shitty attitude when everyone is just posting their 02 cents and yet your posting how YOU think it should be fixed when all it is your 02 cents also. Dont get your panties all wet cuz people dont agree with you.

I never said shitty. I said c0cky. thus why it's * out.

If you guys actually read the posts, i have said it was the parents that need to step up, however it's not going to happen. There's not much you can do about it. I have stated that society and teachers are the only ones that you can really force to do anything about the ill-parenting.




You guys also have to realize that when I post something that may sound snide or bitchy, I haven't eaten shit in over 2 months. Literally.

[IMSHAKN]

Really well said. But you need to realize something. You are well spoken, you have a bad ass degree, and you taught not only yourself curriculum, but others. Your issue here then isn't with teachers, nor is it with the schools. You need to do some research on the NCLB act. Not all students can keep the pace it sounded like you kept. NCLB requires that teachers keep the pace of the lowest student and adjust the curriculum to match that student.

I understand what NCLB states as it's something I've read several times for several of the research papers I did on education. I think that piece of legislation is a bunch of BS as I think it limits what is being taught by placing more emphasis on teaching to the tests as it holds schools accountable for their performance on the federally mandated state issued tests.

In addition to shitty legislation regarding the standards of the school system I do blame the teachers as they do not help stimulate academic interest nor do they challenge their students or help develop them into being critical thinkers. I can't count how many students I know who have had little to no outside homework during high school and middle school. Something is wrong with that picture as it leads me to believe that students are not being challenged.

[BurnTire]

I understand what NCLB states as it's something I've read several times for several of the research papers I did on education. I think that piece of legislation is a bunch of BS as I think it limits what is being taught by placing more emphasis on teaching to the tests as it holds schools accountable for their performance on the federally mandated state issued tests.

In addition to shitty legislation regarding the standards of the school system I do blame the teachers as they do not help stimulate academic interest nor do they challenge their students or help develop them into being critical thinkers. I can't count how many students I know who have had little to no outside homework during high school and middle school. Something is wrong with that picture as it leads me to believe that students are not being challenged.

Tenure is a wonderful thing.

[IMSHAKN]

Tenure is a wonderful thing.

Tis one of the problems with the current education system. There are a lot of teachers who have no business being in education, but once you're in, you're golden unless you do something really stupid.

[Jacostang]

Kinda Like the congressmen and senators term limits need to be implemented in all fassets our government!

[BurnTire]

In my field if you don't meet the rigorous standards you don't have a job. Then training records are required to be shared between companies to ensure sub standard individuals are not recycled and hired elsewhere.

[princessturtle]

In my field if you don't meet the rigorous standards you don't have a job. Then training records are required to be shared between companies to ensure sub standard individuals are not recycled and hired elsewhere.

That would honestly be awesome. I've known a couple teachers that were in the process of being fired, however they contacted the union and fought it. When they finally left the district at the end of the year, there were absolutely no records of what led up to or aspired after the union entered. They were hired without a problem into the next school and continue to move districts when problems arise.

[IMSHAKN]

That would honestly be awesome. I've known a couple teachers that were in the process of being fired, however they contacted the union and fought it. When they finally left the district at the end of the year, there were absolutely no records of what led up to or aspired after the union entered. They were hired without a problem into the next school and continue to move districts when problems arise.

That is unacceptable. I'd love to see a program set in place that makes it so that teachers cannot do this.

[BurnTire]

During the period between 1987 and 1994, the US air carrier industry suffered at least 7 fatal commercial airline accidents that were attributed, in part, to errors made by pilots who had been hired without background safety checks being completed. Later reviews of these pilots' records revealed prior safety violations or training problems which followed them to subsequent air carrier employment without the new air carrier being aware of these violations or problems.
In all cases, the new air carrier(s) had lacked access to, or had failed to obtain, the pilots' flight qualifications and other safety related records from the FAA and/or previous employers before completing the hiring process, thereby creating the potential for substandard pilot performance to continue. As a result, on October 3, 1996, Congress passed the Federal Aviation Reauthorization Act of 1996 (the Act).
The President approved the Act six days later on October 9, 1996. This Act, which had an effective date 120 days after enactment, is commonly referred to as the "Pilot Records Improvement Act of 1996" (PRIA). PRIA now authorizes the mandatory gathering and sharing of this specific information, which enables a hiring air carrier to make an informed decision before extending a firm offer of employment to a pilot applicant.


Federal Law Covers my field.

[princessturtle]

That is unacceptable. I'd love to see a program set in place that makes it so that teachers cannot do this.

something similar was supposed to begin in 2007. However, it was only going to apply for the new graduates, not teachers who have already been working in the field. I graduated in 06, so I'm unsure if it went into play or not. From what I understand, it never made it since districts had a difficult time keeping the files.

[ThePunisher95]

You guys also have to realize that when I post something that may sound snide or bitchy, I haven't eaten shit in over 2 months. Literally.


Ive never ate shit and I dont get snidy and bitchy lol


Anyhow, their should be laws or something to were parents should do their job and BE parents or dont have kids to begin with if you dont have the money or time to spend time with your own kids. Thats should be a place to start not adding more stress to teachers.

[princessturtle]

Ive never ate shit and I dont get snidy and bitchy lol



ah ha. ah ha..... funnnnaaayyyy....

[1966PonyGirl]

I have no right to suggest, imply or otherwise state that the parents should not be having children. That crosses many professional lines. The most I can do is help the parents that want the help and require them to do the homework with their kids. Early on, I told my parents that their kids would not pass my class if they did not do homework every night with their kid. Even my parents that work late have to work with their student.

What percentage of parents (not just in your class but over all) would you say actually are proactive in working with their kids? from what i have seen, i have seen 10% actually did take steps to work with their kids.

what it comes down to is QUALITY NOT QUANTITY when applied to homework or to the duration of a kindergarden class.

If you are not thrilled about the cuts, then i suggest going with the option of organizing the districts together and have a state wide walk out. no one can bring the k-12 kids to school? the parents are going to not like that, right? now these people have kids and have to work... and no one to watch the kids? hmmm might get some feed back on that.

You are sitting on your bottom, spending your valuable time complaining about a problem. a better and more positive way would be coming up with a solution. :dunno:

[1966PonyGirl]

Ive never ate shit and I dont get snidy and bitchy lol


Anyhow, their should be laws or something to were parents should do their job and BE parents or dont have kids to begin with if you dont have the money or time to spend time with your own kids. Thats should be a place to start not adding more stress to teachers.

I totally agree with regulating some of the people with the whole kid thing. Like Jaco said, you need a licence to drive. at the very bare minimum, they have to go thru an educational class/es. here is another thought.... you have to be 21 to drink you should have to be 18 years to have a kid unless you are emansipated (sp?) from your parents.

[princessturtle]

If you are not thrilled about the cuts, then i suggest going with the option of organizing the districts together and have a state wide walk out. no one can bring the k-12 kids to school? the parents are going to not like that, right? now these people have kids and have to work... and no one to watch the kids? hmmm might get some feed back on that.

You are sitting on your bottom, spending your valuable time complaining about a problem. a better and more positive way would be coming up with a solution. :dunno:

Can't walk out. It's considered job abandonment and they can pursue legal consequences for it. If they get really mad, it's considered endangerment. Teachers aren't allowed to walk out at any point. It's part of the professional standards which we are held liable for. There isn't a teacher who will do a walk out because of this. We aren't like any other profession, what someone else can organize; we have laws and ethics that state we can't.

As for changing things, you assume that's a focus. Half day kinder may affect me right now, but it's not an emphasis of reform that needs to be fought for right now, in my opinion. Just sucks. My passion is in special education and when I can afford to spend the time and energy that is required for the position, my time will be spent with a specific disability group, trying to reform how their education is presented.

[princessturtle]

I totally agree with regulating some of the people with the whole kid thing. Like Jaco said, you need a licence to drive. at the very bare minimum, they have to go thru an educational class/es. here is another thought.... you have to be 21 to drink you should have to be 18 years to have a kid unless you are emansipated (sp?) from your parents.


This may be how you feel, but how would the government prevent child bearing? taking away the kids? I thought you guys didn't want the government involved in the personal lives. You have to choose one. Let the kids and idiots have kids or let government control our ability to populate and possibly much more.

Besides, it wouldn't matter. There are soooo many people who would be able to get this "license" or whatever and still not be able to take care of their kids. For example: I have a student whose parent works for CPS. When she put herself in the hospital for 3 weeks, CPS turned their head and let the kids stay home alone. Kids being 5, 7, 14. They stated that she was a good mother and the kids were well raised, so they would not do anything given the circumstances. Recently the student has been acting up. When questioned why, he said his mother tells his sister to beat him harder with what was described as a 4" belt at night. This not only qualifies as abuse on his part but on his sisters part as well since she is TOLD and in essence FORCED to beat her younger brother. In person, she is a WONDERFUL mother. Has well spoken children who are among the best in the school in behavior and academics. She shouldn't have those kids. The behavior from the student has gotten sooo bad from the things that happen at home that my final agreement with him is that if he has several good days, I'll ignore the bad days and not tell him mom or brother that he was in trouble. We're gonna ignore what and if I should be doing something to help him, cuz that's not something i'm gonna say.

[1966PonyGirl]

Can't walk out. It's considered job abandonment and they can pursue legal consequences for it. If they get really mad, it's considered endangerment. Teachers aren't allowed to walk out at any point. It's part of the professional standards which we are held liable for. There isn't a teacher who will do a walk out because of this. We aren't like any other profession, what someone else can organize; we have laws and ethics that state we can't.

As for changing things, you assume that's a focus. Half day kinder may affect me right now, but it's not an emphasis of reform that needs to be fought for right now, in my opinion. Just sucks. My passion is in special education and when I can afford to spend the time and energy that is required for the position, my time will be spent with a specific disability group, trying to reform how their education is presented.

Fear of an outcome will hold you back. if i remember correctly, it was possible death that people faced in the American Revolution. The nicest way i can say this: solve the problem. plan B is to put up (with it) or....

as for the large letters paragrah, i understand how its not an emphasis or the reform. the kinder class length was mentioned in your very first post in the thread. even if your passion is for special education, you can agree that it is quality time needed that specific group needs?

[BurnTire]

It is illegal to organize an illegal job action in a union environment. You can be fired, fined, and jailed for such activity.

[princessturtle]

Fear of an outcome will hold you back. if i remember correctly, it was possible death that people faced in the American Revolution. The nicest way i can say this: solve the problem. plan B is to put up (with it) or....

as for the large letters paragrah, i understand how its not an emphasis or the reform. the kinder class length was mentioned in your very first post in the thread. even if your passion is for special education, you can agree that it is quality time needed that specific group needs?

true. but starting a revolution by losing my job, my teaching certificate, and my career isn't gonna start a revolution. and it's certainly just gonna scare other teachers into staying put. A walk out isn't possible on any grounds and it's not a life or death decision. I would understand if it were something more critical than the amount of time the kids spend in school during one specific year. It is something that can be protested much less dramatically and still gain results.

and of course, any group of kids at any age just need that quality time, quality education, quality parents, and quality life. i truely believe that the only way to fight the idea of quality anything is to put up preventive measures that will only change how society pays and a certain profession interacts. Unless you want to be like China, there's not much more that can be done.

[princessturtle]

It is illegal to organize an illegal job action in a union environment. You can be fired, fined, and jailed for such activity.

maybe it's because i'm home being sick and my brain isn't working, but make this easier for me to read plz. little words do wonders right now....

[1966PonyGirl]

This may be how you feel, but how would the government prevent child bearing? taking away the kids? I thought you guys didn't want the government involved in the personal lives. You have to choose one. Let the kids and idiots have kids or let government control our ability to populate and possibly much more.

Besides, it wouldn't matter. There are soooo many people who would be able to get this "license" or whatever and still not be able to take care of their kids. For example: I have a student whose parent works for CPS. When she put herself in the hospital for 3 weeks, CPS turned their head and let the kids stay home alone. Kids being 5, 7, 14. They stated that she was a good mother and the kids were well raised, so they would not do anything given the circumstances. Recently the student has been acting up. When questioned why, he said his mother tells his sister to beat him harder with what was described as a 4" belt at night. This not only qualifies as abuse on his part but on his sisters part as well since she is TOLD and in essence FORCED to beat her younger brother. In person, she is a WONDERFUL mother. Has well spoken children who are among the best in the school in behavior and academics. She shouldn't have those kids. The behavior from the student has gotten sooo bad from the things that happen at home that my final agreement with him is that if he has several good days, I'll ignore the bad days and not tell him mom or brother that he was in trouble. We're gonna ignore what and if I should be doing something to help him, cuz that's not something i'm gonna say.

In that post i was illustrating how lesser things are regulated. What i was putting forth was the concept of educating people to at least give them the tools to a more thought out reason as to having kids. We teach kids about information and facts of life but not how to present questions to the facts in order to lead a more educated, non fact-regurgitated life.

[princessturtle]

In that post i was illustrating how lesser things are regulated. What i was putting forth was the concept of educating people to at least give them the tools to a more thought out reason as to having kids. We teach kids about information and facts of life but not how to present questions to the facts in order to lead a more educated, non fact-regurgitated life.

got it. this is a reform that has been trying to gain momentum for years now. it's slow in progression.

[1966PonyGirl]

It is illegal to organize an illegal job action in a union environment. You can be fired, fined, and jailed for such activity.

I would hope the union can be involved to execute some sort of action if you had a mass amount of teachers aiming toward the same goal. i would imagine if they are in place to avoid walk outs, they would be in place to help mediate an issue such as unrealistic school budget cuts.

[1966PonyGirl]

got it. this is a reform that has been trying to gain momentum for years now. it's slow in progression.

hopefully the "leaders that be" wise up and accelerate that or incorporate it in the sex ed classes!

(can i say sex on this board??? lol)

[princessturtle]

hopefully the "leaders that be" wise up and accelerate that or incorporate it in the sex ed classes!

(can i say sex on this board??? lol)
:ban: j/k. i would imagine so if this is a smiley. :flash:

[1966PonyGirl]

ha ha! i think that would be the closest for a worst case senario!