BBK Cold Air intake and NO TUNE

[maddme]

I posted this once before here. The problem was this: I bought a BBK cold air intake that did not require a tune. I did not want to get a tune on the car at that time. The idiot light came on and I than pulled the intake off and I had the dealership reset the lean error. Any how I just had some one tell me that if I did not disconnect the battery when I installed the intake that that is why the light came on. Well I had not disconnected the battery. So I was wondering if I do the process over again and this time disconnect the battery and re install the air intake and than re connect the battery if it should work this time with no light comming on? Does any one have any ideas out there? Remember this intake should not have to require a tune.

[maddme]

:pinkthumb::pinkthumb:Well just in case some are interested in this post: I want to let the people know out there about what I found out. I wanted the BBK air intake (refer to pic) that did not have to mess with finding a tune that best fit the car and the intake. The BBK was suppose to be that. I could not get the engine light from coming on though (too Lean). After three attempts I think I got it. It had been 150 miles driven and no engine light so far. Her is how I did it:

1. I had not let the computer reset long enough the first 2 times. I had the battery disconnected for around 1 hour both attempts and no go.
This time I had the battery disconnected for 7 hours. Causing me to miss the photo shoot. Oh well at least the car seems to be working now.
2. I than re-connected the battery and let the car idol for 30 min straight with out putting the car in gear or messing with any thing else. Just let is set and idol.
3. Than I shut it off and let it set for 5 min.
4. Than I started it again and let it idol for 15 min so that the computer could train itself.
5. Than I drove the car for 40 miles.

I have drive the car another 100 miles since and I am happy so far. I cross my fingers that it still works after another week or so.

There you have it and I hope that helps someone else out there that may have the same problem.

[Justin@VMP]

The BBK CAI requires that the factory transfer function be modified by roughly 15% for fueling to be correct, that is a fact.

You got lucky, the computer has corrected, and is just within the threshold enough to not set a check engine light.

However, without proper tuning, it may eventually set a check engine light.

I just don't see the point in putting so much effort into something that is still technically wrong.

[maddme]

Well if you talk to the people at BBK and at Stage three or American Muscle or many other places that sell that particular air intake that I bought. They will all tell you and it is advertised that way, that this one does not need a tune. That is why I bought that one and that was the research that I did before I bought it. I know other people that have bought other air intakes and including the BBK that have not had to tune there cars. The only thing that may be different is that ther cars were 05's and 06's mine is an 07. Not all manufactures of air intakes make there intakes so that they require tunes. But I do give you this most do. This link will take you directly to the place that I bought it and if you go there look closely at the note that is mentioned.
http://www.americanmuscle.com/bbk-2005-gt-cai.html

[Justin@VMP]

Well if you talk to the people at BBK and at Stage three or American Muscle or many other places that sell that particular air intake that I bought. They will all tell you and it is advertised that way, that this one does not need a tune. That is why I bought that one and that was the research that I did before I bought it. I know other people that have bought other air intakes and including the BBK that have not had to tune there cars. The only thing that may be different is that ther cars were 05's and 06's mine is an 07. Not all manufactures of air intakes make there intakes so that they require tunes. But I do give you this most do. This link will take you directly to the place that I bought it and if you go there look closely at the note that is mentioned.
http://www.americanmuscle.com/bbk-2005-gt-cai.html

None of those people you quoted are actual tuners though. There is a big benefit to "claiming" that your intake requires no tune, its appealing to the consumer that has not done a lot of research, and makes them think they can get into a performance part for less money. In reality, properly tuning the PCM is important when you put the MAF sensor into a larger housing.

I would say that KN is probably the only true no tune required intake, and thats because its CARB legal and they must answer to the government.

[maddme]

Thank you for responding to this post, good information to consider.

After I read your last post I called the main research and devlopment person at BBK headquarters.

He was not sure why I had to have two attempts at my BBK install. He told me that the usually work the first time. He told me that he has done extensive test on the BBK air intake for the Mustang and he even owns one himself. He also mentioned a few things that I thought were noteable here: 1. He said that they never manufacture a BBK intake that requires a Tune. That was one of the things that they did not want to do when they decided to manufactuer there product. 2. They purposely make the housing portion of the tube (the 2 or 3 inches of tube that connects to the air filter and also houses the mass air flow sensor) the exact diameter as OEM so therefore no tricking of the computer is needed. 3. The mass air flow tube area has been replicated and the mass air sensor housing has been replicated from OEM. The housing is not larger than stock and that means the computer should see the exact same air flow as stock.

I am hoping that the light does not come on though. If it does than I decide to either get a tune or take the air intake off until I get a tune.

However unless the engine light comes on I believe that there should be no engine damage or harm.

Thanks for your post, it made me actually call the person that was in the manufacturing process of the air intake, which is what I should have done from the beginning. Thanks so much have a great day.

[maddme]

Justin,

Again thanks for your input it was very helpful.

I was wondering what does the VMP stand for at the end of your screen name?

[Justin@VMP]

2. They purposely make the housing portion of the tube (the 2 or 3 inches of tube that connects to the air filter and also houses the mass air flow sensor) the exact diameter as OEM so therefore no tricking of the computer is needed.

This statement right here indicates that he has little experience with tuning.

Even if you maintain an 80mm diameter around the MAF sensor, you will still change how air flows over it when you go from a flat panel filter to a cone filter.

Tuning the computer properly is not tricking it, its making it work as intended. The computer expect to know exactly how much air is going into the engine, the maf sensor measures this, but when you put the maf sensor into a different housing this changes.

Don't believe me? datalog short and long term fuel trims, I can guarantee there will be a sizeable correction of 10-15%, including a long term correction at WOT.

There is actually a real reason why people are tuning for aftermarket intakes.

[06GT]

Why not get a tune? Obviously you're willing to spend money on the car based on all the engine bay decoration :dunno:

You'll run a safer A/F ratio, make more power, and not have to worry about Check Engine Lights.

[maddme]

So are you saying that I may damage my engine even if the engine light does not come on? Or maybe the computer has adjusted to this new variable? I do believe that you have extended knowledge and experience in your tunning. I even looked up your web site and it looks very impressive. I just wonder how the people at Roush get away with there NON-supercharged cars that they sell at dealerships that are not tuned and still covered under warranty? But yet have air intakes on those cars. I DO believe in tunes! Do not get me wrong I simply want to know that if you are doing a very minor bolt on air intake that the manufactuer has fabricated to OEM "Housing spec's" than would a tune always be needed in your opinion? And we can not deny that many other Mustang owners are buying these air intakes and not having to tune them. I believe that there is a definate need for tuners and quality tuners that really know what they are doing (such as yourself) so this is NOT I repeat NOT a tuner or tunning bashing.

[maddme]

By the way I may get a tune on the car. If I do get a tune I want to wait for the warranty to expire first. That is why I went this direction for now.

Thank you for the input and the postings I appreciate the response back.

[Ethan@S3M]

So youre telling me that Roush is selling cars to dealers to sell new that arent tuned right?

[maddme]

No that is not what I meant in that statement. I actually was bringing up a point. Here is what I meant: I was told by someone that the Roush Stage 1 and possibly the Stage 2 (NON-Supercharged) has a Roush air intake on the car. That person told me that those cars do not require a tune in order for the system to function properly. This person was a reliable source.

I would never say that Roush would supply a dealer with an improperly tuned car. I am a Jack Roush fan and believe that his organization is top notch.

But I have never wanted to argue about this point. I am just looking for answers to unsolved questions is all.

[maddme]

But the last posting actually would prove a point if what the person (The reliable source) told me was true. If Roush supplies dealers with car's that do not require a tune for Stage 1 and Stage 2 that have air intakes than some and I want to repeat SOME air intakes may not require a tune.

Thanks Ethan for the posting you guys are great down there at Stage 3 and that is why I use you guys for parts and for advise.

[maddme]

Well thanks to everyone that posted on this post. It really has helped me consider several things and that is what these discussions are all about. There was some great input here and I appreciate that. I have found out that there are many opinions about what does and what does not require a tune. I found a Mustang forum that a guy had done some research on this issue (which I guess I am not the first to wonder about it) and he gives a pretty good list of parts. He details what the parts are and describes why or why not they may need to have a tune if used on your car. Here is the link and I hope it helps out any one that may wonder as I did. Again thanks to everyone for your help.

http://mustangforums.com/m_4578884/tm.htm

Good Luck!

[Justin@VMP]

I am not saying that you are going to damage your engine, I am saying that things are not 100% right though when installing the BBK intake but not tuning for it.

Tuning a car does not void the warranty, so I would not be concerned.

The roush intake, made by air-raid, has an insert that makes the intake more restrictive and places the MAF sensor in a smaller housing, so a tune is not required. I've picked up 5rwhp from removing this piece and tuning the vehicle properly.

Roush stg 1s and 2s come with a performance tune, much like the non-supercharged saleens.

[maddme]

Thank you for your comments! Very good information. Would you know of a good no a great Tuner in the Phoeonix area??? If I am not mistaken you are in Florida? I would be willing to spend the money now that I know more than I did before. But I do not want to go to a fly by night tuner. I have heard some crazy stories.

[06GT]

Performance Solutions Racing (PSR) did my tune and I'm very happy with it. They've also done quite a few cars on this board.

They're in Phoenix on 26th Ave, just south of McDowell.

[wickedcobra]

+1 for PSR. They do a great job....

[WildBill]

maddme (http://www.highperformancestangs.com/forums/member.php?u=804)
Ya need to listen to Justin. He's one of the best tuners on the east coast...BAR NONE.

Call up PSR and Devin will fix you up with a great tune.
602-269-8955

[maddme]

Well I need to give Justin all the props that he deserves! He told me that the BBK Intake needed a tune. I researched more and more and more and thought that this air intake just should not require a tune at all. Justin also mentioned that the light would come back on! I ran the car for almost 200 MILES and guess what????? The light indeed came back on today. I am sorry if I doubted you Justin! You really know your stuff. And I really appreciate your honesty and your knowledge about tuning. To bad that you do not work here in Phoenix or at least on the west coast. I will look to some advise for tuners here in the valley and take the intake off the car until I get hooked up with the right tuner. I may try Performance Solutions (Devon) others here have mentioned that they were happy with him. If any one else has had good experience with someone else please let me know.

One thing for sure is this: Do not believe the NO TUNE advertisement. Maybe K&N or a few others are good that way. But do a whole bunch of research and give JUSTIN a post or a call he really knows what he is talking about.

Thanks again Justin.

[WildBill]

Told Ya!! Lol!