Car Show Classes. . .?

[Blown66]

It is my feeling that one of the most important things at a car show is the chance for everyone to win a trophy or whatever. We are assisting at a car show coming up and keeping in mind it is for charity (can't go broke paying for a million trophies) they have created 18 classes with 3 winners per class. Take a look. . .is there a class not being thought of? (ie Shelby's?)

The classes within each class are 1) Convertible 2) Hard-Top 3) Modified.

The classes are. . .

-- 1964 1/2 to 1968
-- 1969-1970
-- 1971-1973
-- 1974-1993
-- 1994-2004
-- 2005-2008

Lastly. . .in your opinions. . .what makes a car modified vs not? Simply wheels? Or does their need to be 2 or three items added or changed?

[Martimus]

Warning: LONG WNDED RESPONSE...

At the first planning meeting for the Tricked Ponies show we talked about whether or not to create a separate class for SE Mustangs (Foose, Rousch, Shelby, Cragar, PJ, etc.). The challenges I saw (or maybe perceived is a better word) were:

Do we have one class for both convertibles and hardtops?
If only one convertible SE in that class shows up do we simply hand them the trophies? or do we fold them into the hardtop class?
If we fold them into the hardtop class what do we do with the trophies we purchased?For a judged show its likely irrelevant since the judges would, hopefully, be using a consistent judging criteria. Another possible question to ask using the Open/Closed/Modified format is which class do you enter these SE cars into? Open/Closed? or Modified? After all the SE's may be stock in the eyes of the company that retrofitted them but modified in the eyes of Ford. And how do you handle the SE look-alikes? With the 2005+ Mustangs its easy for someone to buy GT500 bumper covers and hood. And with the older models we have companies like Unique Performance that take stock Mustangs and turn them into GT350's and GT500's. If someone built up their car one piece at a time in their garage people would see this as awesome but what about those who can afford to drop $250k on a Unique Performance GT500E Super Snake?

One of my suggestions at the first meeting had been to have separate GT and V6 classes. The challenge there was cost and timing. Adding a separate V6 class for each grouping would have doubled the number of trophies, the time to hand out awards, and possibly even increased the judging time. Where do you draw the line?

Lastly, in terms of what is modified, I suspect this will be a contested point to many. To me modified is performance modified. Throw a supercharger in a car and its most definitely modified. To others however its all about changes from the car that originally drove off the production line. The challenge, as you pointed out, is how many changes make the car modified? And how significant do the changes need to be? If someone installed a leather steering wheel cover or swapped out the stock floor mats does this constitute a modification? How about something that most people would never see like installing after-market shocks or sway bars?

Car Show planning is enough to give someone a headache! :biglaugh:

[Ruckus46gt]

One of the best things i've seen that would classify the car as not modified is 5 or 6 minor mods at most. That would included a couple chrome pieces, etc. If a car has a power adder, body kit, changed out interior, diff motor or tranny, chromed out engine bay then it would be considered modified.

[Blown66]

I agree with both of you. I think in my mind a modification is 1) power. . .and if not power then a combination of X amount of changes. 3-5 sound about right? Restoration people will argue. . .but there has to be a line.

A V-6 vs. V8 should not warrant another class (unless the show can afford it then yes). . .but should a 1965 Shelby or a 1968 California Special really go against a rock stock 1966 Coupe??? Should their be a specialty class that includes ALL SHELBY's ALL YEARS and other specialty mustangs?

[AZSonicSnake]

power mods normally can't even be seen though. take my cobra, when its out at the shows it look bone friggen stock. less you look under the car and take a gander at the suspension mods. i think a mod class should include stuff more like stereo and video stuff along with body mods and stuff of that nature. as there is a line, a person like myself would never harm the body on my car, nor will i spend the money on in car entertainment. and i think its none to fair to stick guys that base thier mods in a more practicle way vs a car the most times is extremely un practicle(otherwise know as a show car..).

[Ruckus46gt]

most car shows have a spot where your supposed to put the motor in the car there, but if most people do who knows. Also exhaust etc not really sure i'd consider that a mod. An intake as bad as it sounds i would consider as 1 of the mod. Guess if it changes the appearance it should be considered a mod, if it doesnt it shouldnt be

[6Jeff6]

This is a really hard question. Some people go to great lengths to stay completely stock and get beat by someone that has some mods. In most cases it costs alot more to stay completely stock and they are punished by losing to people with mods(which are easier and cheapier to upkeep).

But will you really get enough people to fill completely stock classes??? That I can't answer but I can guarantee people that are truely stock will go home unhappy if they lose to someone that has any mods(even a valve cover).

I'm no pro but have been to many car shows and that's the biggest complaint I see.


Good luck

Jeff

[Blown66]

Jeff explain this. ..does the guy with the bone stock has to get over it if he loses to someone that has a few mods or like you said a valve cover? I lost (Copperstate) to a fairly bone stocker that should not have beaten me at any show. ..but I understand that a lot (probably most) mustang people respect the stockers, moreso than my car and I fully expected not to win anything. I got over it before I even enterted the show. . .I enterted for fun.

Point being the line has to be extended and not put down in cemement for stockers. Right?

Another question for all. Doesn't matter the year or class. . .lets say you get a 69 modefied. . .but there are only two. Is it okay to move them to the class before or after theirs to compete with other cars in their modified years? Assuming the trophies don't say the years and of course doing it before the show begins.

[Jacostang]

Your gonna find "Trophy Hounds" everywhere and yes its very nice to win an award that shows that people appreciate all your work. Personally It's hard for me to swallow voting for a car because of club affiliation but it does happen. We at CMC try very hard to give everyone a good fair chance by spliting up into basics groups Open/Closed.................. factory Stock/Modified and then into years 64 to 66 or start 64 to 68 69 to 73 Etc. then depending on how many in one class you can break it down even more. The last spring show we had so many S197 cars that we broke the class down into 4 groups then of course your Saleen, Roush ,Shelby etc.
We gave people points on mods to see what class they shoud be in, if a car had more than 60 points then it should go modifed, like a super charger or turbo is 25 points, body kits is 25 points so folks can add up what they have on a car to let them make a good choice. The basci rules for judges where 3 things.. How clean is ist? How good was the mods done and how was the presentation, so even a highly modded car that was done poorly or very dirty would not win over a lighter modified car.

[AZSonicSnake]

Personally It's hard for me to swallow voting for a car because of club affiliation but it does happen.

this is what kills me about peoples choice awards. its not done by what the car is, its done by who you know. this is why i grimace when i hear peoples choice. because lets face it, if i was lookin at joe blows mach, and then i saw darrells mach, even if they were identicle, its easy to say what will sway a vote.

[6Jeff6]

Jeff explain this. ..does the guy with the bone stock has to get over it if he loses to someone that has a few mods or like you said a valve cover? I lost (Copperstate) to a fairly bone stocker that should not have beaten me at any show. ..but I understand that a lot (probably most) mustang people respect the stockers, moreso than my car and I fully expected not to win anything. I got over it before I even enterted the show. . .I enterted for fun.

Point being the line has to be extended and not put down in cemement for stockers. Right?

Another question for all. Doesn't matter the year or class. . .lets say you get a 69 modefied. . .but there are only two. Is it okay to move them to the class before or after theirs to compete with other cars in their modified years? Assuming the trophies don't say the years and of course doing it before the show begins.


I'm just saying some people go to great lengths to stay stock then get punished by losing because their car isn't as shiny or blingy as the modified ones. People don't realize how hard it is to make cars #'s matching and all that.
I was just giving you info from the car shows I have gone too. I've seen #'s matching ss chevelles and gt 350's lose to a modified 69 camaro. The people with the real stock cars tend to never come back and the word spreads and you'll end up with modded cars only. But enough stock ones may not exist so this could be all mute. The last show I was at they tried to adjust as the cars came(put you in a class but move you around depending on who shows) but it was all screwed up and everyone complained then.

Basically I'm just rambling so all in all set a guidline and stick to it. You run it and ignore the whiners. You'll have some no matter what.

Yes combining classes is all you can do when enough don't show but talking with the people that fall into those classes(that enough don't show) might help you bring more of that category in.

Ahh hell have fun. That's what it's all about.:twothumbsup:

Jeff

[Blown66]

Jeff hopefully you didn't read me wrong, I was sincerely asking what you meant and not making any judgements. What you wrote (the second time) is very helpful because it explained the first to me.

JACO. . .thanks, that is very helpful.

[Martimus]

I suspect these words say it about as well as it can be said "Set a guideline and stick to it". Its impossible to make everybody happy with the rules so just draw a line in the sand and move from there.

The concern I have is defining stock as "that which rolled off the factory floor". For reasons of practicality we obviously have to exclude the following consumables from consideration as mod's: wiper blades, tires, shocks, lights. From this point I guess we need to make a decision of what constitutes modified.

But what about a Restomod? Lets say someone purchased a junkyard 1969 and restored it to MOSTLY stock using factory parts where available and aftermarket parts when no equivalent factory part was available, does this constitute stock or modified?

[Blown66]

Trouble maker! ;) I'll let you handle that question, very valid one.

But I thought JACO was very helpful with the "mod" scoring system. . .to determine if they go into a mod class.

[6Jeff6]

Jeff hopefully you didn't read me wrong, I was sincerely asking what you meant and not making any judgements. What you wrote (the second time) is very helpful because it explained the first to me.

JACO. . .thanks, that is very helpful.


No I understand what you meant. I have a tendency of not explaining things all the way through(atleast that's what my wife says:biglaugh:).

I'd recommend just putting generic easy to fit in guidlines this year, then mingle and try to get a feel for what people want then adjust for the next one.:twothumbsup:

[AZSonicSnake]

Trouble maker! ;) I'll let you handle that question, very valid one.

But I thought JACO was very helpful with the "mod" scoring system. . .to determine if they go into a mod class.

i think the scoring system is awesome. i used it with one of the first copperstate shows, and honestly, felt like i was classed well when i got there. adds more points for certain mods. works out perfectly imo.

[Blown66]

Martin...(anyone else who cares to comment)...I think it should be considered to combine the 69-70 and 71-73 class (I think Copperstate did that for their last show) and add a specialty or whatever you want to call it class that would incoporatate Saleen, Roush ,Shelby?

Is there a problem with an old school shelby vs a newer model? I don't think that is that big of slight to the 69-73 class is it?