50BMG tune problem.

[Gene]

I think you should hook up the hose into the TB elbow and not run the breather. The breather is unmetered air, peroid! Hook up your DJWBC software and give it a second go. I'll take a look at it if you want. Gene

[matt]

I agree with Gene however, you still need to look at what the MAF is doing. It could be that with the cold and dense air you are maxing out the MAF. Not sure of the upgrades you have but it should not be over looked.

[Gene]

I'm pretty sure he has an sct 2400 maf on there. He should however see how many volts he is hitting at WOT. This can be done via WBC as well. You just have to hook it up to the right pin though. Matt, hook us up the PCM pinout via adobe, I'm lazy.

[matt]

I'm pretty sure he has an sct 2400 maf on there. He should however see how many volts he is hitting at WOT. This can be done via WBC as well. You just have to hook it up to the right pin though. Matt, hook us up the PCM pinout via adobe, I'm lazy.
I lost my hosting site awhile back but this should work

http://2003cobra.blogspot.com/

Also for reference
RPM (orange wire on DJWBC) = Pin 26 on PCM
Analog 1 ~TPS (grey wire on DJWBC) = Pin 89 on PCM
Analog 2 ~MAF (sorry I have an old one and am not sure on color) = Pin 88 on PCM

[50 BMG]

I'm on SCT software with a SCT 2400 MAF.

The PCV is already hooked back up and was when I think the car went lean.

Where do you hook the Wideband up so I can log then spit it onto a computer?

EDIT: So do I splice into the numbered port or what? I'm at Aaron's house typing so I dont have my connector stuff available. I got the WBC in July of 2005, dunno what version it is or might be.

EDIT2: Gene, would ya mind helping me make sure this is OK if I bring the car out on Sunday...not exactly sure what the schedule is. I also just got a brand new laptop through work so guess I can do it in car as well.

[Gene]

I'm on SCT software with a SCT 2400 MAF.

The PCV is already hooked back up and was when I think the car went lean.

Where do you hook the Wideband up so I can log then spit it onto a computer?

EDIT: So do I splice into the numbered port or what? I'm at Aaron's house typing so I dont have my connector stuff available. I got the WBC in July of 2005, dunno what version it is or might be.

EDIT2: Gene, would ya mind helping me make sure this is OK if I bring the car out on Sunday...not exactly sure what the schedule is. I also just got a brand new laptop through work so guess I can do it in car as well.

No problem man. Bring it out on sunday. I'm half tempted to invite everyone over to my house for pics and beer.

[50 BMG]

Update.

OK. I just went out and did 2 WOT pulls after the car warmed up to 175 degrees.

First pull was in 2nd gear. Wideband gauge showed it exactly at 12 on the line.

Second pull was in 3rd gear. Wideband gauge showed it at 11.5

Thoughts?

[Gene]

your fine dude. second gear, you had less load since your tires were spinning up top. A 4th gear pull will be ideal, but risky LOL! See, works fine.

[50 BMG]

Now I need to check it on 100 octane tune. Can't afford the 5 gallon drum of Torco right now though.

Well I'm glad I'm fine, and glad I kept my mouth shut about SVC until today/last 24 hours.

I'm still gonna have Dan's tuner take a look at this thing though, it's never made the power it was suppost too compared to the other eaton/cam cars.

[Gene]

max power i have seen on an eaton cammed crower stage 3 car was 530-540 RWHP on beef cakes car from Modularfords.com. Not that great if you ask me. These blowers just cant huff enough. You have headers to boot. i bet when I plug in my predator in your car on sunday to log IAT2 temps, they will be though the roof since that eaton will get so damn hot with your pulley combo. If rob set the tune to retard timing above 150+ IAT2 temps, your computer should pull timing to avoid detonation.

[50 BMG]

JDM's car made over 600/600 on an 1st gen apten port and the then JDM stage 2 cams in april of 2004, 100 octane.



All of the following was during a 4 hour dyno session in 100+ degree weather on MT drag slicks:
According to Rob, my IAT2 temps never went above 125 when they were dyno tuning my car on the 100 octane tune. They read 121 after the 5th dyno pull. They were really suggesting for me to move to a 8lb lower as well...guess the trunk reservoir works?

The car peaked 418rwhp @ 5700 RPM's (or 527rwhp "corrected' to their dyno)
Max boost, 16 PSI, came at 4200 RPM's and quickly fell off thereafter
Peak torque was at just under 3500 RPM's, and measured 410 rwtq (~520rwtq corrected) on their dyno

Rob said the A/F stayed between 11.5-11.7 on the 100 octane tune, I haven't confirmed that yet but I assume it's true cause I'll bet he just stacked on the 91 octane tune and added timing for the additional octane. I don't know what timing he ran on the 100 octane tune. He said the 91 octane tune had 22 degrees of timing and was way safe. I told him to tune it like it was 89 or 90 octane gas cause pump gas sucks ass out here.



Needless to say, I don't even take this car past 5500 RPM's cause it goes slower when I do. My trap speeds took a big shit when I took the car to 7 grand on the 100 octane tune. I was just ****in around short shifting when I ran the 124 trap (which was actually my first time at strip with the mods), never had the BFG DR's above 100 MPH and wanted to take it easy on the big end my first time down the strip on them.

The torque and boost drop so fast it's stupid. I'll bring the dyno sheets on Sunday if you want to see this, it's actually kinda funny. We'll see what it can really do on Dan's new dyno in 3 weeks on both tunes with some (finally) good ambient weather and no dyno power robbing MT slicks on the car. I have a hunch the car will be a damn animal with the 17 PSI pulley on the whipple if I make peak rwhp at 5700 RPM's right now.

[Lucafu1]

I think those are some pretty good numbers.
Your right about JDMs car, and I htink He did it thru a auto. There was alot of tunning on that thing though.
I dont think cams are worth as much as people think. Your tune is real safe and still makes power. Your trap could be due to lots of reasons.
Was it hot out, do you power shift? These cars are funny, but once things get worked out its worth it.
Ive always herd good things about SVC, but they are way to expensive for me. I called them and asked about a tune (I have my own Xcal2) and they said starting at $500. Im sorry but damn, If I do get a tune it will probly be thru AZ Dyno Chip since they use SCT. Unless that new shop uses SCT, then theres another option.
I like RWTD but tunes take to long for me. I have a pretty good tune now, I adjusted it alittle so I can spray a 75 shot tomarrow (hopefulley). But drivability isnt to great and my MPG sucks, lol, but my foot doesnt help either.

Luis

[50 BMG]

Your exactly right luis, cams take -a long time- to get tuned right on these cars. But as shown in JDM's case, it was well worth it. That car (and the fact I knew I'd move to a twin screw soon) was the reason I did cams; just imagine if JDM had their current grinds and a steige stage 4 port instead :twisted: JDM screwed with that car for a while (it had IRS and a 6 speed when it did 600/600, it later ran a 10.1 with a mach 1 auto and a SRA+75 shot). Dan has offered to take the time to get this car right in the tuning department.

I like James at RWTD; he has been more than kind to me in offering me discounts on things beyond tunes. But, I'm not really interested in going back and forth with him on a eaton/cam car to try and squeeze more power out of it.

[The Nunn's]

you want you AF to be around 11:5 to 11:8 that is the sweet spot as for your tune we have a location now so I pushing for the Grang opening in feb first week but will be open sooner for buisness


once again this is Dan

[Screamn03]

50BMG, what's your mods? What cams, what port, and what pulley combo on the blower?

I have a stageII ported Eaton with the FR500 cams (http://www.modularfords.com/forums/2003-2004-svt-cobra-terminator/frpp-fr500-cam-valvetrain-kit-questions-19407.html)and layed down 510/495SAE (http://www.modularfords.com/forums/2003-2004-svt-cobra-terminator/dynod-the-car-eaton-w-cams-inside-fr500-32808.html). This was on the same conservitve tune where I did 487/470SAE (http://www.modularfords.com/forums/2003-2004-svt-cobra-terminator/dynod-car-today-487-470sae-mods-inside-22720.html) that had 19*max timing and 11.5-12.0 AFR (on the street).

I now have the SCT PRP and am slowly working up on the power but the cams created all kinds of little irritating drivability issues, mainly idle and startup issues that I'm more concerned about working out first. The reason I went with the FR500 cams was because I wanted to still try and pass CA emissions. I think there's still alot more left in this car though, plus it's only a 2.8upper, still have a lower to use at a later date when I get a fuel system that'll handle it since I'm already maxing the pumps out.

The JDM car (http://www.modularfords.com/forums/2003-2004-svt-cobra-terminator/600-on-an-eaton-11416.html?highlight=600+HP+eaton) is amazing, don't know what they did to get that with the auto but props to them. Considering it ran like a 10flat at the MMFF Terminator shootout I'd say it's making damn good power.

I asked Beefcake about his cam specs (http://www.modularfords.com/forums/2003-2004-svt-cobra-terminator/cammed-eaton-hp-numbers-30148-2.html) multiple times and he ignored me, if I remember the mag article it was Comps with something like 230* of duration.

Over all I think Gene hit the nail on the head, the blower just can't flow the air needed to make the cams really shine. If you look at N/A combos with cams they pickup mean power above 5K but yet that's just where the Eaton really starts to fall off. Hell, the FR500 valvetrain is suppose to be good to 7500, damn Eaton would explode and/or melt if I tried to spin it that fast...lol.

The biggest thing that I think alot of power will come from is an optimized timing curve. I'm running a timing curve currently that everyother RWTD tuned Terminator runs. I would think that cams would slightly alter the amount of timing the motor would want based on previous experiences with other motors but I'm ballshy to experiement in fear of a broke piston.

[50 BMG]

50BMG, what's your mods? What cams, what port, and what pulley combo on the blower?


All mods listed here, writeup included:
http://saleenpower.com/forums/index.php?&act=garage&CODE=12&CID=52
Engine mods:
Crower stage 3 supercharged grind (grind stats are on their website, it's a real aggressive cam and you can hear it/compare when you get here), Stiegemeier stage 3 port (July 2005 port date, 2.93/6 pulley combo, run it full time). Evans complete cooling unit on NPG+ fluid, with oil cooler built in the radiator. Rob said the Evans crap is working and is safely giving me another 2 degrees of timing. Accufab big oval TB. JLT high boost CAI. RR blower spacer, Stainless works full 3" exhaust and headers. Canton windage tray (suppost to add hp...).

I didn't do head porting or valve replacement. I'm going to go to a 5.4 Ford GT block and heads. The 4.6 cams will work in the 5.4 engine; I may have them slightly reground by crower for 100 bucks when the time comes.


I now have the SCT PRP and am slowly working up on the power but the cams created all kinds of little irritating drivability issues, mainly idle and startup issues that I'm more concerned about working out first.

I have zero problems with this. I will say right now Rob did an excellent job of it for such an aggressive cam grind and never dealing with it on a DOHC car like mine.


The reason I went with the FR500 cams was because I wanted to still try and pass CA emissions. I think there's still alot more left in this car though, plus it's only a 2.8upper, still have a lower to use at a later date when I get a fuel system that'll handle it since I'm already maxing the pumps out.

I'm registered in Montana, they don't do emissions :twisted: All of the family cars get listed through the old man up there for many, many reasons. AZ and CA suck ass.

I'm on a BAP with 60lb injectors as well.


The JDM car (http://www.modularfords.com/forums/2003-2004-svt-cobra-terminator/600-on-an-eaton-11416.html?highlight=600+HP+eaton) is amazing, don't know what they did to get that with the auto but props to them. Considering it ran like a 10flat at the MMFF Terminator shootout I'd say it's making damn good power.

To me it seems very simple what they did; they took their time and figured out the cams. IMO 99% of tuners can't tune for the cams in these cars.


I asked Beefcake about his cam specs (http://www.modularfords.com/forums/2003-2004-svt-cobra-terminator/cammed-eaton-hp-numbers-30148-2.html) multiple times and he ignored me, if I remember the mag article it was Comps with something like 230* of duration.

I would run FR500 cams in my car every day of the year before I put a set of comp cams in my Cobra. I think crower is way ahead of anyone offering a retail grind for these cars, unless you want Al Pappito/equivalent to do a custom grind for ya. JDM just does very minor regrinding to crowers cams from what I heard a long time ago at MF.com. Word was, a JDM stage 3 cam=crowers stage 2. Mabey you can add to this as your a mod over there and the whole JDM situation seemed a little "hush hush" to me.

EDIT: I have 270 duration, says right on my cam card that came from crower. A 230 duration is like a stage 1.5 crower cam...


Over all I think Gene hit the nail on the head, the blower just can't flow the air needed to make the cams really shine. If you look at N/A combos with cams they pickup mean power above 5K but yet that's just where the Eaton really starts to fall off. Hell, the FR500 valvetrain is suppose to be good to 7500, damn Eaton would explode and/or melt if I tried to spin it that fast...lol.

I took my 100 octane tune to 7000 RPM's on 2x 1/4 mile runs. It lost 10 MPH in trap speed compared to when I shifted at 5500 RPM's. Crowers stage 2 cams aren't suppost to change the power range at all, probably the same as the FR500 setup.

Can't wait to see what the car will do at 7000 RPM's with a twin screw holding steady boost.


The biggest thing that I think alot of power will come from is an optimized timing curve. I'm running a timing curve currently that everyother RWTD tuned Terminator runs. I would think that cams would slightly alter the amount of timing the motor would want based on previous experiences with other motors.

Which is exactly why I won't do a mail order tune on this car. It would literally take months of back and forth communication to even see a slight improvement over what I have now.

Since my tune isn't lean, I'm just going to wait and see what it does on a dynojet before commenting anymore on what is left in the tune. Many people on MF.com said I probably lost 40-50 hp at the wheels with the MT slicks on the car.

[Screamn03]

Mike- I accidentally edited your post when I though I was quoting it. Tried to repair it the best I can, sorry about this.
-50 BMG


[All mods listed here, writeup included:
http://saleenpower.com/forums/index.php?&act=garage&CODE=12&CID=52
Engine mods:
Crower stage 3 supercharged grind (grind stats are on their website, it's a real aggressive cam and you can hear it/compare when you get here), Stiegemeier stage 3 port (July 2005 port date, 2.93/6 pulley combo, run it full time). Evans complete cooling unit on NPG+ fluid, with oil cooler built in the radiator. Rob said the Evans crap is working and is safely giving me another 2 degrees of timing. Accufab big oval TB. JLT high boost CAI. RR blower spacer, Stainless works full 3" exhaust and headers. Canton windage tray (suppost to add hp...).

I didn't do head porting or valve replacement. I'm going to go to a 5.4 Ford GT block and heads. The 4.6 cams will work in the 5.4 engine; I may have them slightly reground by crower for 100 bucks when the time comes.

I was digging around some more on MF and found that you originally were going to go with the IIs, what made you switch to IIIs? Did you ever run the car with the IIs or did you change your order? Hell ya, GT 5.4, that'll be mean, really mean


I have zero problems with this. I will say right now Rob did an excellent job of it for such an aggressive cam grind and never dealing with it on a DOHC car like mine.

This is good to know, makes me feel dumb...lol. I have the startup issue resolved and almost have the rolling idle coming to a stop licked as well, other than that it seems to drive fine but it's no where near optimized yet.


I would run FR500 cams in my car every day of the year before I put a set of comp cams in my Cobra. I think crower is way ahead of anyone offering a retail grind for these cars, unless you want Al Pappito/equivalent to do a custom grind for ya. JDM just does very minor regrinding to crowers cams from what I heard a long time ago at MF.com. Word was, a JDM stage 3 cam=crowers stage 2. Mabey you can add to this as your a mod over there and the whole JDM situation seemed a little "hush hush" to me.

EDIT: I have 270 duration, says right on my cam card that came from crower. A 230 duration is like a stage 1.5 crower cam...

I don't know anything about the JDM stuff other than they won't sell them to you, you have to have them installed by them. SVTDubs had a set for sale at one point (that KenB from MD somehow got and installed way back when) but I think he kept them for his turbo project, that fuggin guy changes combos and benchraces more than anyone I know so I really have no idea wth he's doing. A friend of mine with a Works Whipple powered Lightning tells me that Jim is a crooke so I've never delt with them, but I'd take that with a grain of salt.

I meant 230* at .050", my bad. With this modular valvetrain cam specs can make your head hurt really quick since the rocker geometry doen't have a set ratio, so you can't think in terms of any other motor you've ever messed with (SB Fords, SB/BB Chevy, Pontiacs, LS1s in my case). According to Dgussin in that thread Beefcake had 106360s (http://www.modularfords.com/forums/212828-post34.html) in the car, which are 265/267 Adv Duration, 230/232 .050 Duration, .475/.450 lift on a 116* sep as per Comp.

I find it interesting how Crower specs there cams:
http://www.crower.com/cat/domestic/ford/mustang_camshafts.shtml
...giving both lobe and valve figures. Do you know what the lobe seperation is on your cams?
My FR500 specs are: 258I/254E AdvDur 204/214@.050 .472"/.472" 109LSA

Being blown I dunno if you can pass air at below .050 lifts but I would assume you could so maybe that's why they still seem to work well? This is something I've never looked at until now BTW. I'll also mention that I installed the cams straight up, did you do the same with the Crowers?

Dunno if you ever saw Dave King's post about 1000hp+ Modulars (http://www.modularfords.com/forums/277781-post52.html), he said this in regards to cam specs:
"2. Don't go crazy with cams, and keep duration under 230@50. These motors don't need a lot of duration. Excessive duration or overlap will kill these engines. I seen Joe Stewart lose 50 rwhp with the wrong cams. Run the centerline at 116. If you run regrind cams make sure that you check the basecircle on all 4 cams as they will vary greatly. This can throw a big wrench in your tuning."

Also, why don't you care for Comp?


Which is exactly why I won't do a mail order tune on this car. It would literally take months of back and forth communication to even see a slight improvement over what I have now.

Since my tune isn't lean, I'm just going to wait and see what it does on a dynojet before commenting anymore on what is left in the tune. Many people on MF.com said I probably lost 40-50 hp at the wheels with the MT slicks on the car.

Email Order/Forum Order can work good for a cookie cutter car like I once had. If you are doing a pulley, filter, CB then I wouldn't hesitate to call on a respected tuner for a Email Order/Forum Order tune. But if you choose to do something different like you or I then I feel that you really need to DIY or take it to someone that can dial it in, every car is going to be slightly different in this case and the only real way to get it right is to have the person that's doing the tuning have the car in front of them.

[Lucafu1]

Some good post and info in this thread. I just bought the PRP after a bad day at the track and after some data logging with these mail order tunes. Oh well you get what you pat for.I hope to learn this software so I can get a good tune and start sprayin. I dont have to worry about cams, Im sure that its a PIA.

BTW you will loose power on the Dyno with slicks or tires that are under pressure. It doesnt mean anything to me since I dont care much about dyno numbers. ETs and MPH is what I want. But yeah low air pressure can throw some low numbers and have you thinking something may be wrong. I would get some good pressure in the tires and every dyno run make sure there at the same. Its just due to the rolling resistance.

Later

Luis

[50 BMG]

I was digging around some more on MF and found that you originally were going to go with the IIs, what made you switch to IIIs? Did you ever run the car with the IIs or did you change your order? Hell ya, GT 5.4, that'll be mean, really mean.

I called Jared at Lethal at the last min and changed them, it was during the group buy. It's when I decided to go twin screw for sure. The 3's also seem to add more power than the 2's but only at the peak. If I did it all over a gain I would have done the 2's; based on what many people said on both sites, they seem to have way more torque in the midrange.


This is good to know, makes me feel dumb...lol. I have the startup issue resolved and almost have the rolling idle coming to a stop licked as well, other than that it seems to drive fine but it's no where near optimized yet.

Might want to drive down to SVC while your here and see if Rob will talk to you for 5 or 10 minuets pro bono and give you some help if need be. I remembered, I have a single drivability issue. I must give it a touch of throttle (like 1250 RPMs) from a dead stop or it will die.


I don't know anything about the JDM stuff other than they won't sell them to you, you have to have them installed by them. SVTDubs had a set for sale at one point (that KenB from MD somehow got and installed way back when) but I think he kept them for his turbo project, that fuggin guy changes combos and benchraces more than anyone I know so I really have no idea wth he's doing. A friend of mine with a Works Whipple powered Lightning tells me that Jim is a crooke so I've never delt with them, but I'd take that with a grain of salt.

Interesting...and Erik Jones has nothing on the rampant benchracing in Phoenix.


I meant 230* at .050", my bad. With this modular valvetrain cam specs can make your head hurt really quick since the rocker geometry doen't have a set ratio, so you can't think in terms of any other motor you've ever messed with (SB Fords, SB/BB Chevy, Pontiacs, LS1s in my case). According to Dgussin in that thread Beefcake had 106360s (http://www.modularfords.com/forums/212828-post34.html) in the car, which are 265/267 Adv Duration, 230/232 .050 Duration, .475/.450 lift on a 116* sep as per Comp.

If those stats are at the cam that is a really weird grind or they put huge N/A cams in there...I mean that is a -shitload- of duration at .050. Thats like crower stage 4 at the cam specs right there, with the duration @ .050 still noticably higher on the comp grind than crowers stage 4.

I would have liked to have heard that car in person. That car probably couldn't even run right from light to light.


I find it interesting how Crower specs there cams:
http://www.crower.com/cat/domestic/ford/mustang_camshafts.shtml
...giving both lobe and valve figures. Do you know what the lobe seperation is on your cams?
My FR500 specs are: 258I/254E AdvDur 204/214@.050 .472"/.472" 109LSA

Crowers website is weird to read. Some of those stats are at the valve ...

My specs at the cam from my individual card (intake first, exhaust second): 258/258, 212/212 @ .050, .269/.269 lift, 114* lobe seperation. If need be now you can compare those specs to crowers website and you'll quickly see which website specs are at the valve.


Being blown I dunno if you can pass air at below .050 lifts but I would assume you could so maybe that's why they still seem to work well? This is something I've never looked at until now BTW. I'll also mention that I installed the cams straight up, did you do the same with the Crowers?

I had Rob @ SVC (who tuned the car) install the cams. DOHC cam installs, tuning, head porting, and certain shortblock projects are the only thing I'd pay someone to do on my Cobra cause I have little knowledge in these areas.


Dunno if you ever saw Dave King's post about 1000hp+ Modulars (http://www.modularfords.com/forums/277781-post52.html), he said this in regards to cam specs:
"2. Don't go crazy with cams, and keep duration under 230@50. These motors don't need a lot of duration. Excessive duration or overlap will kill these engines. I seen Joe Stewart lose 50 rwhp with the wrong cams. Run the centerline at 116. If you run regrind cams make sure that you check the basecircle on all 4 cams as they will vary greatly. This can throw a big wrench in your tuning."

I'll keep that in mind. I'd never go with a bigger cam spec for FI than I have right now anyways; crowers base turbogrind is exactly the same as mine except they shave 10 degrees off the exhaust side.

230 @ .050 must be INSANE on these cars. Makes me glad I didn't go with comp if the stats David Gussin gave and you provided above are correct.

VT offers Crower and comp, but take a look at these Comp supercharged cam specs from VT's site:
http://www.vtengines.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=11_2_3&products_id=42 mild cam. Stage 1?
http://www.vtengines.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=11_2_3&products_id=43 real hot, notice the duration @ 050. Stage 2?
http://www.vtengines.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=11_2_3&products_id=44 HUGE duration @ 050. Stage 3?

Now comparing those advertised #'s to crowers advertised #'s somethign seems obvious...Crowers stage 3 to what I assume is comps stage 3 (hence the question marks after the links above). Crower is using more advanced duration on both sides and has much more lift, especially on the exhaust side. The comps make it up with the HUGE durations @ 050.

Dave King is one of the very few people I would listen to on the internet, and if what he says about duration @ 050 is true...


Also, why don't you care for Comp?

Cause I haven't seen good results with them on our engines compared to the crower/jdm results. Plus the above information in this post.


Email Order/Forum Order can work good for a cookie cutter car like I once had. If you are doing a pulley, filter, CB then I wouldn't hesitate to call on a respected tuner for a Email Order/Forum Order tune. But if you choose to do something different like you or I then I feel that you really need to DIY or take it to someone that can dial it in, every car is going to be slightly different in this case and the only real way to get it right is to have the person that's doing the tuning have the car in front of them.

Which is exactly why I paid SVC 300 bucks to tune my car. They got the stupid cam issues dead on right the first time, the question is how much they got in power from them. SVC's dyno is retarded when you try to compare their dyno results to everyone else's dyno's in Phoenix, so I have no idea what this car really puts down. I'm not trying to chase # on a dyno or at the strip but I just want to know...lol

[Screamn03]

This should be interesting:
http://www.modularfords.com/forums/2003-2004-svt-cobra-terminator/comp-xe274bh-cams-installed-dirty-dirty-whore-41968.html

[50 BMG]

Responded to that thread...

[Screamn03]

I think the before and after numbers will be useless since they also installed the Stainless Works exhaust but it'll still be interesting to see what they get out of that combo. Those are huge cams for a small blower.

Did you also catch this thread:
http://www.modularfords.com/forums/2003-2004-svt-cobra-terminator/effectiveness-of-engine-ve-changes-with-a-positive-displacement-supercharger-41735.html
...pretty good info, makes me think too hard so I keep re-reading it...lol.

[50 BMG]

Discussions like those get me closer and closer to going to a ~10 PSI single turbo everyday.

But as vector said, just replace the 2-3 PSI you lose from the cams/valves/heads etc.

It still doesn't explain what seems to be the outliers like beefcake and JDM picking up 40-60 rwhp with cams and not replacing the boost. But then guys like postban didn't pickup shit with a high end setup.

[Gene]

So do you guys think the cams were worth it?

[Gene]

It still doesn't explain what seems to be the outliers like beefcake and JDM picking up 40-60 rwhp with cams and not replacing the boost. But then guys like postban didn't pickup shit with a high end setup.

Also look at wiz's and 78's car. Both were nuts on the cams. I gues it all comes down to tuning. But then again, postbans car made 666 RWHP with the twinscrew and cams. So I don't know why he's complaining.

[50 BMG]

It is the tuning, the more cam cars that are coming out and posting #'s the more it seems to be the case...I think there is more to the story with how many new cam cars just keep popping up on MF and SVTP.

I know 78 is on crower 3's, what brand cams did Wiz use?

I'm obviously very interested in seeing what James does with this way over durationed cam car, plus it has the same exhaust as I do (no cats?).

I have zero regrets with my cams, or with my Evans package. I think they're worth the money cause I like to keep things safe and lower my operating temps. My #1 priority with my car is keeping the cylinder temps down to avoid piston to wall scouring (should have ported the heads and done valves with the cams eh? :oops: ). The same power with less boost is just a bonus to me.

Postban just has a shitty or waaay safe tune if I took a guess. His 666rwhp came on I believe 100 octane with overbore pistons, built shortblock, heads/valves/cams with a 20 PSI whipple pulley combo. I've seen 20 PSI whipples do 650rwhp on 100 octane, bolt-ons and a stock longblock.

[Screamn03]

Discussions like those get me closer and closer to going to a ~10 PSI single turbo everyday.

But as vector said, just replace the 2-3 PSI you lose from the cams/valves/heads etc.

It still doesn't explain what seems to be the outliers like beefcake and JDM picking up 40-60 rwhp with cams and not replacing the boost. But then guys like postban didn't pickup shit with a high end setup.
I agree with replacing the boost. Thing is, with a Eaton that's easier said than done. Thing with JDM and MD is they are shops so they need to look good. Now, I'm not acusing them of false numbers but then again they are shaddy with the info about the setups so it makes me more curious about them compared to someone like James(50) or even postban that are more open about their combos and what they are doing to get (or not get) the results they have. Like I said, not acusing them of anything, just saying I take it with a grain of salt and move on to the cars I do see or the members that are more open about their combo.

The way I see it, in a N/A combo you have aptmospheric pressure (14.7psi at sea level) pushing air into the motor. Even when you cam/head a N/A motor you still have that 14.7psi there. With a boosted motor you have lets say 15psi pre-motor-work. Then you do engine work and you end up with 12psi. That's not fair IMO because the pressure pushing air into the motor is reduced. Like I said though, the Eaton is already maxed at this point so it's not that easy to get that 3psi back, especially in the upper Rs so the gains look shitty. I'd like to see my heads and cams on Gene's car, he has a setup that I think would benifit from it a hell of a lot more than James and I. Actually, it'd be easier to put Gene's blower on my car ;)...lol.

Gene, I have mixed feelings about the cams. I ended up spending about the same amount of money on the heads and cam that I could have spent on a twinscrew. You proved to me that the KB works better than my setup (duh..lol). But, the car did lay down 510/495SAE with 19*/11.5AFR on 91 octane. I haven't seen another ported blower (stageII) 2.8upper only car do that with the same tuneup. I've been working out some bugs with my tune (my AFR is kinda goofy, I hit commanded 11.43 where the maf count point is but outside of that it's leaner, working on getting it even so I can lean on it a little more). I want to do a dyno run with my combo running 93 with the 23*s of timing in the car along with the AFR a little leaner around 11.8-12.0 steady. Basically what I'm saying is there's power left on the table, how much I dunno. You and I talked about this already about the fact that I'd wait to do cams/headwork until you needed to rebuild the shortblock. These motors are just too expensive to tear apart. It cost me $450 just to bolt my heads back on the motor. My original plan was to not kill the shortblock though so we'll see how that goes.

[50 BMG]

These motors are just too expensive to tear apart. It cost me $450 just to bolt my heads back on the motor. My original plan was to not kill the shortblock though so we'll see how that goes.

+1.

The 1 reason I went ahead and did the cams is cause I can also use them on a 5.4...which is what I will be doing 1 way or another in the future. Which is also the reason I didn't drop cash into the heads and valves on my stock engine. I will be doing the cam swap work on my own next time; after watching shaggy do his own cam swap it ain't that bad. If my motor goes there would be no excuse not to step up to a aluminum 5.4 block and the new GT heads...and I'd probably drop the coin to have Al P or someone similar do the heads right like VT did with Akuma's.

BTW, James at RWTD got over 60rwhp and over 40 rwtq on that comp cam car with no power loss down low...the only changes being a swap to SW over the BBK's and the cams. Wonder what octane it was on?

[Venomous Bite]

Well James it looks like you need to get the other James to tune your car.

[Screamn03]

Hey James, did you see this thread:
http://www.modularfords.com/forums/2003-2004-mustang-cobra/first-dyno-results-with-new-combo-56917.html

Somewhat similar combo, just thought you might find it interesting, I know I do.

[50 BMG]

Hey James, did you see this thread:
http://www.modularfords.com/forums/2003-2004-mustang-cobra/first-dyno-results-with-new-combo-56917.html

Somewhat similar combo, just thought you might find it interesting, I know I do.

Ya I saw it. What I find interesting is how he is already making more torque than HP at under 500rwhp SAE. My car put down the following on three pulls in a row in 100 degree PHX weather at Dan's shop:

530/528, 535/530, 525/52X

All SAE and 91 octane gas/tune, tune never gets above 11.7 A/F... 2.93/6 pulley combo on a stage 3 port.



How you been anyways Mike?

[Gene]

Ya I saw it. What I find interesting is how he is already making more torque than HP at under 500rwhp SAE. My car put down the following on three pulls in a row in 100 degree PHX weather at Dan's shop:

530/528, 535/530, 525/52X

All SAE and 91 octane gas/tune, tune never gets above 11.7 A/F... 2.93/6 pulley combo on a stage 3 port.



How you been anyways Mike?


Nice numbers James. Did Dan retune it or is that the tune SVC loaded you up with?

[50 BMG]

Same old SVC tune. Nothing was ever wrong with it. I was going to have PSR retune it after the pulls, but after the results Devin & Dan looked at me and said "there isn't much we're going to be able to do for you..."

Thinking back through distant history...this thread was started from a combination of my ignorance and getting bored with the power level of the car...

[Lucafu1]

not sure if it was covered but as long as your running 2 breathers youll be fine. mine has been doing great so far as well as deleting the egr.