View Full Version : My Hellion kit and dyno experience, please read.
Well, after driving the car for a couple of months with the Hellion kit, I have come to these conclusions.
Positives: The car is a freaking beast. I love the turbo kit and will never look back. I do not regret the conversion at all. My car gets more attention now than it ever did. It has more horse power on tap than I know what to do with and I get 24 MPG. The MM front suspension is amazing. It handles better than any corvette or exotic that I’ve ever been in. What can I say, its just down right nasty. Now this was driving the car daily for several weeks on 15 psi of boost. I never really took it to kill mode (20 + psi) in 4th gear on any roads since that’s just retarded. I did take it to 24psi the other week on the 17 and almost shit my pants. But, I noticed that my A/F was a little too lean on that much boost.
Negatives: There are not too many. The only issue I really have is with the car stalling on me sometimes due to blow-off valve backwash. This is annoying especially if you are coming to a stop and lose power brakes. It happens every time I drive it and my tuner Jon Lund has tried everything he can do with no solution.
This brings me to my original reason for posting. I thought it must be my WBC sensor since I did run straight 110 Sunoco leaded race fuel at FFW. I noticed my tune was lean on the last run of the day when I had my car turned up to 17psi. Previous runs were 10psi and 13psi (which were not lean, but on the edge of 11.9) I haven’t voiced my concern yet since I thought it was for sure my WBC sensor that I burnt up. Well, I got a new sensor and experienced the same results. So I called Dan and asked him if I can make a reference pull to see what’s going on. Sure enough, my car was going lean on the big end. This pull was made on the stock waste gate (10psi) and made 490RWHP and 535RWTQ at 4500 RPM where Devin shut it off. Not too bad since my car only made a max of 7psi according to my Blitz (logs highest boost made during a run). He shut it off since the car was detonating (I saw proof) and was going lean at the same time.
Conclusion: All this talk about mail order tunes being superior is fine to a certain point. I was an advocate of mail order tunes since the beginning with RWTD. I never had my KB setup on a dyno when I had the LT headers, lower, and all the mods that made it the beast it was. I was just going off the wideband. This was the first time I had the Hellion setup on the Dyno and I’m glad I did. It probably saved my engine. Bottom line, mail order tunes might be fine to get you to a dyno. If it checks out ok on the A/F side and its not detonating, you've probably got your self a winner. Mine on the other hand with the fuel mods it has and the power it makes needs more attention to detail. So take it from me, the previous mail order tune advocate. Get your car over to a dyno and see what it is doing. My car was puffing smoke and detonating when it wasn’t supposed to and I saw it in person. Dan was right; I never could see this in the driver’s seat. Thanks again to Devin, Ernie, and Dan for taking time on a Saturday to show me that I wasn't going crazy.
Now I do have a winner.
I was pulling in with the silver Toyota today as you were leaving, sorry I missed ya.
Myself and the rest of us down here @ PSR appreciate your above post/honesty. Look forward to seeing you next week...
BurnTire
11-11-06, 09:09 PM
Turbo is a whole different animal for tuning.
AZSonicSnake
11-11-06, 11:27 PM
glad to hear it got fixed. those guys certainly do kick some ass. :2thumbs:
blacksunshine
11-12-06, 03:04 AM
Mail order tunes are ok for some, some people get lucky and then some people don't. If you spend the money on putting all the best parts on the car, the last thing you want to do is melt them away with detonation...
The guys over at PSR are the BEST in town, before I met Dan, NO ONE would EVER touch my car except me(I have control issues), but one day my Welder was on the Fritz and Dan said that he would help me out, I needed to get some sub frames Welded in quickly, and he dropped everything to help me out, this was before he even thought of going into business for himself, I knew at that moment that he IS a standup guy. I have seen his employees dedication to setting up a tune, so that it is perfect...and let me tell you, sometimes it takes hours on end. So how can someone Hundreds of Miles away know what is best for a car, when they don't know Exactly how the car responds to every calculated factor.
evil04cobra
11-12-06, 07:50 AM
Glad to hear you got it looked at Gene. As Jeff said, when it comes to tuning, turbos are an animal all their own. I am not familiar with the mods done to your car, but I am certain that any reputable tuner can get the car in the shape it needs to be. I am curious about one thing, though. You said you saw proof of detonation, and I am just wondering what you saw.
Regards,
Parker
puffing out back and we pulled the plugs to analyze.
BurnTire
11-13-06, 01:07 AM
So how can someone Hundreds of Miles away know what is best for a car, when they don't know Exactly how the car responds to every calculated factor.
They Don't
That is the key to a conservative base tune.
That is why they need you to datalog on a road or dyno pull and send them the results.
I can tell you 1 thing my car and u1arunits are very similar in mods.
We both tune with the SCT's pro racers package with a base tune from RWTD.
When you compare our personal tunes they are very similar.
u1arunit had his car on the dyno a few times and the tuner wanted to know who tuned his car because the tune was perfect and making great power.
Then he answer oh I tuned it myself with a RWTD base.
I will more than gladly stop by Dans for a Dyno pull to see how good or bad my tune is. Then we can post the results here and put this subject to rest.
Yes if you don't know what the hell you are doing, by all means take your car to PSR and get a dyno tune.
For all the changes and multiple tunes I need going to a dyno is not for me.
It is more than about a fast car to me.
It is the satisfaction of doing the work myself and seeing the results.
Quite frankly I am getting tired of this email vs. dyno tune debate.
u1arunit
11-13-06, 07:42 AM
Very well said Jeff and all true. :awsome:
Quite frankly I am getting tired of this email vs. dyno tune debate.
Im quite frankly getting tired of the PA mentality on this board :beatup: . I think that all of us here in Phoenix have forgotten that we are all stupid and all the PA guys are god i guess ..:pointlaff: ...... Im not the only one that feels this way. :wtf: it is getting old. People offer advise and help and the PA guys change the subject to something it isnt. this has turned in to a tuner Debate and it went from me offering some dyno time free of charge. To your Boy friend Wold pack saying I am talking shit about John Lund hell I have no clue who that even is. so with that being said Im done and Mikey Ill be seeing you and your little yellow cobra in PA have a good day all
BurnTire
11-13-06, 11:24 AM
Originally Posted by Dan http://www.highperformancestangs.com/forums/red2black/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.highperformancestangs.com/forums/showthread.php?p=9719#post9719)
This is why I don’t participate in discussion on this forum. People take things the wrong way then they stir up drama. I Never named any names and I have said that different tuners do different things all the time. I personally will never let another tuner touch my car this goes for RWTD, John Lund, Sam Bandit or anyone else. Why You ask. because I have had the opportunity to see the carnage that the other tuners have to offer. I promise you that I could buy a new car add all my parts and then get a mail order tune from a novis tuner and it will last a while hell it could last a few years depending on how I drive the car. That dose not in any way means that the tune was good just because it has lasted 2 or more years. This is not a pissing match with anyone. Tuners are like opinions everyone has a different one and some share the same one. I Stand behind Devin’s tunes 100%. Every person’s car/ lightning that Devin has touched had gained up to 50 more horsepower across the board not just peak and have had a million times better drivability and throttle response with a safer air fuel. We don’t tune for power what so ever we tune drivability and air fuel the number will be what ever it is.
BurnTire
11-13-06, 01:52 PM
Dan I suggest you make yourself familiar with the forum rules.
http://www.highperformancestangs.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=9866
Above is the post you claim to have never made.
Editing your post and then claiming to have not said the things you said does not do much for your credibility.
No one from PA said anyone is stupid in AZ.
If you make statements attacking some of the best tuners in the industry you are going to get some heat.
You can simple retract your previous statement concerning RWTD,Lund, & Sambandit. It is up to you to clear the air.
I have heard very good feedback about Devin's tuning ability. Promoting your services in a positive manner will produce the best results for you.
I have never met wolfpack in person. I hear he is a good looking guy, but sorry Mike you are not my boyfriend. LOL I will stick with my wife.
This site is about the positive transfers of ideas for the mustang enthusiasts. Lets stay on this principle for vendors and member alike.
Thanks
Jeff
SONIC03SNAKE
11-13-06, 02:59 PM
. To your Boy friend Wold pack
Jeff, are you cheating on me? LOL.
BurnTire
11-13-06, 03:07 PM
Jeff, are you cheating on me? LOL.
Sorry Lou You Caught Me:ghey:
u1arunit
11-13-06, 03:35 PM
Im quite frankly getting tired of the PA mentality on this board :beatup: . I think that all of us here in Phoenix have forgotten that we are all stupid and all the PA guys are god i guess ..:pointlaff: ...... Im not the only one that feels this way. :wtf: it is getting old. People offer advise and help and the PA guys change the subject to something it isnt. this has turned in to a tuner Debate and it went from me offering some dyno time free of charge. To your Boy friend Wold pack saying I am talking shit about John Lund hell I have no clue who that even is. so with that being said Im done and Mikey Ill be seeing you and your little yellow cobra in PA have a good day all
Dan,
If you think that the world is out to get you then maybe they are.
While I am from PA, I've never once said that I am better than anyone else, just that I am happy with my dyno proven results. I am more than just a little knoledgable in the Automotive field and you have never seen be acting like a know-it-all so don't act like we are all against you guys in AZ.
This site is no longer just a local AZ site. Jeff has big plans for this place and we aren't going to want (or need) a problem that occurs every time you post something.
You make it sound like you are so helpful but you really just have your own twisted agenda in mind. Bashing others just to make yourself look better is so weak.
I have been quiet up until now about your demeanor but I have reached my limit with it as well. Seems that there is negativity in every thread that you post in.
As far as I am concerned, you need to publicly apologize before you have any respect from me or some of the other members.
Have a nice day, and I look forward to your reply. :awsome:
Wolfpack Speed
11-13-06, 03:43 PM
Im quite frankly getting tired of the PA mentality on this board :beatup: . I think that all of us here in Phoenix have forgotten that we are all stupid and all the PA guys are god i guess ..:pointlaff: ...... Im not the only one that feels this way. :wtf: it is getting old. People offer advise and help and the PA guys change the subject to something it isnt. this has turned in to a tuner Debate and it went from me offering some dyno time free of charge. To your Boy friend Wold pack saying I am talking shit about John Lund hell I have no clue who that even is. so with that being said Im done and Mikey Ill be seeing you and your little yellow cobra in PA have a good day all
you better run some numbers with that sled of yours if you want me to waste my good gas on your slow ass:z7shysterical: :z7shysterical: :z7shysterical: :z7shysterical: :z7shysterical: :z7shysterical: :z7shysterical: :z7shysterical: :z7shysterical: :z7shysterical: :z7shysterical: :z7shysterical: :z7shysterical: :z7shysterical: :z7shysterical: :z7shysterical: :z7shysterical:
Just a little factoid for you guys (I have no interest in tuning wars I have a crappy Hypertech for my GT).
u1arunit's car pitches my tent more than just a little bit :2thumbs: :bounce:
Wolfpack Speed
11-13-06, 03:46 PM
Just a little factoid for you guys (I have no interest in tuning wars I have a crappy Hypertech for my GT).
u1arunit's car pitches my tent more than just a little bit :2thumbs: :bounce:
you should see it in person:2thumbs:
AZSonicSnake
11-13-06, 03:51 PM
wow. slow ass? i would wager strongly against that sled being anything but slow.
Wolfpack Speed
11-13-06, 03:54 PM
wow. slow ass? i would wager strongly against that sled being anything but slow.
well how fast is it then? i hear it's a 10 second car?????????
AZSonicSnake
11-13-06, 03:56 PM
car had 4 miles on it, and was blowing through the the converter. the issue is fixed, and after this weekend, you will see the times. this car has not had a pass anywhere near its full potential.
u1arunit
11-13-06, 03:57 PM
Just a little factoid for you guys (I have no interest in tuning wars I have a crappy Hypertech for my GT).
u1arunit's car pitches my tent more than just a little bit :2thumbs: :bounce:
hehehe Thanks, I think. LOL :biggrin:
you should see it in person:2thumbs:
Thanks Mike. :beerchug:
Wolfpack Speed
11-13-06, 03:59 PM
car had 4 miles on it, and was blowing through the the converter. the issue is fixed, and after this weekend, you will see the times. this car has not had a pass anywhere near its full potential.
here comes the excuses:z7shysterical:
my 9.75 was neck and neck with the 9.61 car in the right lane when the snout of my crank broke off and i coasted for at least the last 30'....im not making excuses or claiming she's a 9.6x or 9.5x car which is why i have a 9.75 in my sig.
whats the best et, no excuses!!!!!!!!!?????????????/
well how fast is it then? i hear it's a 10 second car?????????
Its potentially 9 second car. The reason why I dont say "it is" a 9 second car is because he doesnt have the time slip yet. I'm 99.9% positive they will get it this sunday.
Wolfpack Speed
11-13-06, 04:23 PM
Its potentially 9 second car. The reason why I don't say "it is" a 9 second car is because he doesn't have the time slip yet. I'm 99.9% positive they will get it this Sunday.
im sure it is!!! as my car sat it was a 9.6x or 9.5x with only 22lbs of boost on a stock motor and no spray.....BUT IT DON'T MEAN SHIT WITHOUT A COUPLE SLIPS!!!!
Dan,
for a guy that hasn't even had a 9 second pass with your car (especially with you not driving it) your calling out the wrong car which has a slew of sub 10 second passes....what a joke you are Dan:z7shysterical: this is a total waste of my time. good luck to ya Dan, hopefully your buddy can drive your car to your first 9 second pass and good luck to everyone else at the rental...get used to this danny boy:yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes:
http://www.mustangmods.com/ims/u/3291/7530/118685.jpg
I find it ironic that this thread starts out paying homage to PSR then the owner begins bad mouthing posting participants. I'm not sure the point you are trying to make as both mail order and dyno tuning have their advantages and hang-ups. It is a personal decision by the owner too which method he/she chooses. Some of us have had good experiences with other tuners and when giving opinion on the matter it should be responded to with respect.
You are a leader in the Mustang community please respond appropriately and represent PSR as a respectable and caring vendor. Parking a trailer at an event and offering invitation, while considerate, does not correct your demeanor on this forum. To the contrary, it suggests agenda other than good business practice.
It is not my place to give you business advice and you can be successful regardless of my comments. However, how you conduct your business on this site relate to the comments above.
Lastly, this is not a slam, I am merely trying to give a different perspective to the situation. I am a customer of PSR and have participated at events hosted by PSR. Your response will determine whether I should remain one.
Lucafu1
11-13-06, 05:14 PM
Dan,
If you think that the world is out to get you then maybe they are.
While I am from PA, I've never once said that I am better than anyone else, just that I am happy with my dyno proven results. I am more than just a little knoledgable in the Automotive field and you have never seen be acting like a know-it-all so don't act like we are all against you guys in AZ.
This site is no longer just a local AZ site. Jeff has big plans for this place and we aren't going to want (or need) a problem that occurs every time you post something.
You make it sound like you are so helpful but you really just have your own twisted agenda in mind. Bashing others just to make yourself look better is so weak.
I have been quiet up until now about your demeanor but I have reached my limit with it as well. Seems that there is negativity in every thread that you post in.
As far as I am concerned, you need to publicly apologize before you have any respect from me or some of the other members.
Have a nice day, and I look forward to your reply. :awsome:
great post and i agree 100%.
I have never been or dealt with PSR but post made here and on other forums gives off a know it all attitude and your way is the only right way. thats not only gonna hurt bussiness but turn potiential members away. i have heard negitive and positive expierences from PSR. one more then the other. i do not say anything negitive because i have not dealt with it first hand. its no wonder so much crap is said on other forums going back and forth. i think a change in attitude with boost respect, bussiness, and even internet sales and so on. if you dont like the way someone does something then do what i do, dont post. or give your useful info and let it be. thats my take on this. hopefully we can put a end to this so we can move on and grow and expand this site and your shop. JMHO
Luis
Damn, how did my thread giving thanks to PSR manifest into a pile of shit? I think Matt drove the nail in the coffin.
BurnTire
11-13-06, 08:13 PM
Dan this is a very noble statement on your part.
I also do agree that someone without tuning knowledge should not load a mail order tune without having it checked. We can all consider this issue closed on a positive note.
Jeff
u1arunit
11-13-06, 08:26 PM
Lucafu1
11-13-06, 09:16 PM
Thanks for the post Dan.
Wolfpack Speed
11-13-06, 10:10 PM
sorry for any drama i caused
mike
group hug.............. and because I always wanted to use this smiley:gayalarm:
BurnTire
11-13-06, 11:55 PM
group hug.............. and because I always wanted to use this smiley:gayalarm:
Ok stay away from me at the rental.
blacksunshine
11-14-06, 12:09 AM
Ok stay away from me at the rental.
ROFLMAO:z7shysterical:
blacksunshine
11-14-06, 12:17 AM
I also do agree that someone without tuning knowledge should not load a mail order tune without having it checked. We can all consider this issue closed on a positive note.
Jeff
I made a statement earlier about mail order tunes, I did not mean someone that has tuning knowlege NOT to use them, I meant someone that doesn't have data logging and common tunning knowlege to just trust a mail order tune... by all means, if you know what you are doing and have data logging capabilities, then I see nothing wrong with a mail order tune, they are a great base to get started. I also stated earlier that mail order tunes are good for some and not for others...what I wrote above is what I meant by that. sorry it got taken the wrong way.
Mark
Ok stay away from me at the rental.
You are going to be my bitch at the rental and like it.
MinGry03
11-14-06, 06:30 AM
Great apology Dan. :2thumbs: I agree with you 100% on having a mail order tune checked. I always have mine checked ASAP. But as far as that PA comment, that made me a bit mad. :grumpy: Just remember Dan your advice is always welcome and appreciated. We always keep learning from the advice of each other & the mistakes we make.
Im quite frankly getting tired of the PA mentality on this board........People offer advise and help and the PA guys change the subject to something it isnt.
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